Friday, March 4, 2011

heaven on earth

Hmmm I'm a bit out of practice and haven't blogged in quite awhile, but my mind is never far off from thinking about or praying for many atheists. I liked and have missed the inter action with everyone but like always I usually lose interest in things. I was actually a bit surprised I blogged for as long as I did. And even more surprised that I actually learned how to turn a computer on and blog. If your an atheist and have stumbled on this site I hope my thoughts will at least challenge you to examine your stance. It's been about 4 months since I've written anything. I have checked out some old familiar sites I used to visit only to be discouraged by the gloomy atheist sites and their sad assessments.

I'm not here to pick a fight with you, I wish it was that easy. There's a real good chance I could kick your ass in about 10 seconds? I do think however that the atheist v. christian internet battles usually end up in name calling with neither side even wanting to hear anything unless it helps their own selfish point of view. That said, please feel free to leave any comment you wish. I'm very hard to offend.
So what thoughts of mine got me back behind my keyboard..........?

As I plow through life- like many of you I enjoy so much about it. I love food, all kinds of food. I love my family and my friends, so going out to eat with friends and family is a big time for me. And tho I'm not setting any records on making money I do enjoy my job. I like hangin' with the fellas at work as we meet new homeowners while beautifying their homes. I like to sneak away at lunch and smash a pizza and a cold PBR with my boy Gonz. I like talking to my daughters about God, boys, school, friends and their life ahead of them. I enjoy my wife's company and all the fringe benefits that comes along with. I Love being at church and being surrounded by other Believers as we praise our God. College football, college basketball, baseball are also cool things. An occasional pick-up game of wiffle ball or basketball or even me showing off and throwing a football 70 yards in front of a bunch of 6th, 7th and 8th graders is good stuff. I could continue to ramble but...

But.... what about all the bad stuff that happens in life? Death, disease, divorce, violence, starvation's, back stabbings, hate, loneliness, despair and all the other horrible things we have to endure while we are on this earth?

Those last things are Hell. But for the Believer it's the only Hell they will ever see. And all the good things I mentioned is the only Heaven an Atheist will ever see. That's what I was thinking about today that prompted me to write.

I'd like to write a little bit about Heaven/Hell. Maybe next time? Welcome or welcome back if you've stumbled across my blog.

Peace, grease and Canadian geese


  1. Welcome back, feeno! I would have been worried about your extended absence were it not for the duration of my own recent blogosphere lulls.

  2. Hey, good to see you back, Feeno! I was shocked when I saw a new post here :D

    I'm just confused when you say that you are finding all these "gloomy atheist sites and their sad assessments." I really don't know what sites you're visiting. I don't get that vibe when I go to atheist sites. I mean, I know that I'm an atheist, so that might make a difference, but I hardly think the general mood on most atheist sites is one of gloominess. Regardless of whether you agree with them or not, I really don't know how you're seeing gloom and doom and I'm seeing puppies and rainbows.

    Anyway, good to hear from you again!


  3. Feeno-beano!

    I think I know why you think all atheist sites are a tad "gloomy."

    Rationalist, realistic, good critical thinking, skepticism often breeds a sort of negative assessment of things because optimism isn't a luxury when your dealing with certain real world concerns.

    Take a growing population, food shortage, and energy crisis for example. We may hope for the best, but honestly, if people don't start making better policies for individual countries to sustain themselves with cash-crops, or if we don't start funding new energy research, then optimism isn't only uncalled for, it looks downright ignorant.

    I would have to question anyone who said these things are fixable within my lifetime. I know they are solvable problems, but let's be realistic, nobody is doing the work that needs to be done to address these issues with the importance or immediacy they require.For example, if we'd spend as much on funding research as beauty companies spend on advertising lipstick the energy crisis would darn near be solved by now. Such depressing insights reveal that pessimism is simply part of being realistic.

    When we apply this critical mode of thought to other things, whether they are religious or just life, it can often appear that we're all a bunch of pessimists. At least revealed religion promises you a second chance, a better life, an afterlife--but for those of us who do not so easily believe in fairy-tales it appears our only course of action is to get gravely serious--and deal with the problems as they arise.

    That's my two cents worth.

    Good to have you back!

  4. Jeff and T-Vick

    What I'm about to say can easily be interpreted by many if not most Atheists as "the problem" with Christianity. But here goes...

    Our problem lies in the fact that man is near sighted. Most only look at the temporal things of this Earth and never think about the eternal. Solving all the world's problems like hunger, wars and Charlie Sheen's contract disputes are all fine noble causes. But if there is the Christian God all the good you just did is meaningless if those same people wind up separated from God for all eternity.

    That's why Christ says he'd rather you enter into Heaven blind, crippled or without a hand then enter into hell totally able bodied. What profit it a man if he has gained the whole world and yet loses his soul?

    When I go to those "gloomy atheist sites" I am not saddened because you guys have good arguments or that many Christians are laughed at, degraded or discounted as kooks, I'm sad because I see you guys making a horrible mistake. Not one Sunday has gone by since I first encountered an Atheist on the computer that I don't pray for you all while at church. My emotions are torn between the joy of praising God and the despondent feeling of wishing you guys could experience what I have. (I know you don't feel your missing anything, but that's the point).

    So now I will predict a rebuttal from an Atheist saying something to the effect of "that we should feed the hungry now instead of focusing so much attention on something that might happen".

    But Jesus would say "do both"


  5. Feeno-

    I think if you pay close attention to Jesus' teachings, especially the verses you refer to, you'll find an immediacy in his "gospel." Which was to repent, the coming kingdom of the Lord is at hand, and that all that is wrong with the world would soon be righted.Jesus even went out of his way to remind his closest followers that they would see the end within their life times (perhaps his greatest failed prophecy).

    That was roughly three thousand years ago. It never came to pass.

    Now I understand why he said it. His message was to throw away all worldly desires, and follow him, as he prepared his followers--thus making them righteous--so they could make an easy transition into his father's heavenly kingdom.

    There is a strong probability that this is actually the echoes of the historical Jesus, an apocalyptic rabbi who taught about the end times, just as John the Baptist did before him. It rings true from a historical perspective.

    The Jesus that doesn't ring true is the one that is depicted in the book of John, where he becomes co-eternal with God the father. The reason why we know this version is not the authentic Jesus is because when the people praised Jesus for a miracle, and an woman confesses her love for him, he shoots her down by asking why she loves him, for she should love God above all things, even himself.

    Such a humble rabbi, with radical views, is the Jesus I find has a better likelihood of squaring with genuine history. This is why I would caution, when thinking about the things you think about, pay attention to which version of Jesus is speaking... is it the heavenly, heavily evangelized, mouth-piece of later Christians, or is it the more Jewish preacher, who still holds the original covenant with Yahweh, because the two are so distinct, so obviously different, that I have a hard time understanding how Christians can so easily conflate the two different figures (accept that I do understand, because I used to be Christian. But in retrospect, it seems an too obvious a mistake to make).

    I mention this because I think you are here making this very mistake. You talk about the rabbi, yet you are alluding to the heavenly stained-glass window version of the Son of God.

    So although I understand that your concern for us is genuine, it seems to me, that it is a rather confused sort of concern. Honestly, I can't say whether it means anything other than to show us how considerate and compassionate you are. Lesser Christians use the exact same confused argument to suggest we'll all burn in hell, not that they'd think twice about sending a prayer our way, because we are the rebels without a cause--we had it coming--we asked for it, after all.

    Yet regardless of the intentions behind the concern, I find both are a grave misunderstanding of who Jesus was and what his message actually was. I mean, the whole reason the message didn't come to pass should have blown the lid off the whole enterprise (to mix metaphors). Low and behold, we still get this "I'm worried for your soul" business, but personally, I can't help but find it meaningless. No offense to you. Your concern is much appreciated, but unnecessary from my perspective.

  6. Dude Feeno!

    Glad to get firm evidence that you are still alive and well! I have continued to check your blog out during your hiatus, and even kept tabs on your daughters blog (the one who lives in LA) trusting that no news was good news. Well, I guess that's proved to be the case.

    Howdly Dudely to Jeff, T-Vick, and MC as well. I guess I wasn't the only one missing the Feenmeister.

    Thanks for your prayers, Feeno.


  7. Steve "Nobody Cooler" Schuler

    I feel all warm and fuzzy knowing you've checked in at my little girls place. Thanks so much. My wife talks with her every day and I talk with her every week but rarely check in on her blog. How is she doing? Actually she'll be flying home for spring break for about ten days. Then back to school for 3 months then back living with Mom and Dad as she works toward her Masters. (I think?)


  8. T-Vick

    This is exactly what I mean by dreary.

    If Christ didn't think He was God he wouldn't have been crucified. This is another old argument that has zero merit. Most Atheists will believe anything they read as long as it's not the Bible.

    We don't need the book of John to know that Christ is God in the form of man. Read Colossians or the book of Hebrews. Plus there are countless verses scattered throughout the entire Bible that point to the fact that God and Christ are one.

    The book of Acts tells us that "we are to be shepherds of the Church of God. Which He (God) bought with His blood." So if God's blood was spilled, who do you think they are talking about? But here's an easy no brainer anyone could follow; Titus 2:13 says "looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus.

    I could write all day about all the the references in the Old Testament about the Trinity. I could then write all day about how all the things said about the Trinity came to take place in the New Testament. With some still to come......

    Jesus could have told those who were calling Him blasphemous (saying He was equal with God) that in fact He wasn't God. Then He'd been spared the cross. So He at least thought He was God. So you have to answer the age old question, was He a liar, a lunatic or in fact who He claimed to be, the Lord.

    I think after church tonight I will post on why God came down in the form of man anyway.

    talk with ya soon.

  9. Hey feeno,

    "If Christ didn't think He was God he wouldn't have been crucified."

    This is highly contestible. Even just using only the gospel accounts (which is all we have, anyway), Jesus was causing a ruckus in the Temple during Passover. Typically the Romans were on edge during these times -- they had a mass of Jews flocking to Jerusalem, and it was a security nightmare if anyone decided to start a revolt. So they clamped down pretty hard. So now you've got this Jew starting a disturbance...that seems a plausible reason for the Romans to cart him out and make an example of him. Even if he didn't think he was God, he might still have ended up on that cross.

    But whatever.

    I understand what you mean now about "gloomy atheist sites", though. I thought you meant that the general mood of the sites were gloomy, and that just seemed the opposite of what I see. Generally speaking, they seem to be full of (tempered) hope and optimism in the power of science and the power of human reasoning. But what you seem to have meant was that you are gloomy when you go to these sites, not that the sites are gloomy. I think that's a significant difference :)

  10. No offense Feeno, but using the excuse "because the Bible says so," is not a valid excuse when it comes to historical concerns.

    You can quote all the verses you like for why you feel the Bible makes Jesus look like he was the Messiah. And I could quote all the verses of the Wizard of Oz sage to prove that Dorothy's ruby slippers were just as historical as the resurrection of Christ.

    You can't use a single source reference to validate a historical claim, you have to measure that claim against third party claims of varying datum and then if it all matches, and holds up to scrutiny, then you can be confident that it's not just a trick.

    All you've done is taken a single source, unverified, and thrown it down as a legitimate historical fact. Well, if that's the sort of claims your making, I won't bother to argue with you here, since I think the Dorothy analogy should suffice, but if that doesn't work either, then I'm sorry.

    And Jeff is right. There are a hundred other reasons why Jesus could have been crucified. The books "The Passover Plot" and "The Masks of Christ" both look at Jesus last few days in great detail, analyzing every political move made, and linking the politics found in the Gospels with real world politics of that period. Really fascinating books if you want to get a more probable (i.e., realistic) account of why Jesus may have been executed from crimes against Rome.

  11. T

    So if I don't play by your rules you will take your ball and go home? Just another reason I must stay away from Atheist sites.

    And no offense to what Jeff said but he's wrong. LK 23:66-71 tells us why he was put to death. Then just a few verses away Christ tells Pilate "It is as you say" when asked if He was the king of the Jews.

    And the Romans weren't even pissed at Jesus. He was killed under the Jewish laws (Blaspheme). The Romans just appeased the crowds to avoid civil unrest amongst the Jewish people..

    BTW, ever ask yourself why people don't believe that Wizard of Oz is a true story?

    Your an Atheist who has a blog. An Atheist who has a blog. I will say it one more time, you are an Atheist who has a blog. And then you go all 8th grade on me because we disagree? OK.

    Hope you do come back tho. Dueces

  12. Hi guys sorry if I'm being rude...
    I have to say an Atheist is not a religion less person. they just don't believe on super power or a higher power or GOD.
    For most of you religion is GOD, no GOD means no religion. Actually there are lot of teachings and philosophies around the world without a super power, a higher power or GOD.

    By the way I enjoy my life as one of those, cos I know I'm not living according to a plan made by someone else up above... that's the reality for us and it's awesome.
    And if you are talking about a Christian GOD and also there is an Islamic GOD (very different from each other and considerable amount of followers). teaching suggests that each has said that they are the only God and no one else. With respect to all, now which GOD is telling the truth?
    one of those two parties including the followers are wrong then :)

    by the way I'm free from thinking those and feel very relaxed too.