Saturday, June 19, 2010

3 strikes and yer out

Ross brings up a good point about a way a Christian should live their life. Paul tells the Philippians this "Do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may be innocent and pure as God's perfect children, who live in a world of corrupt and sinful people. You must shine among them like stars lighting up the sky, as you offer them the message of life....

I know many of us don't live up to Paul's challenge. Here's 3 Christians that drive me crazy. Atheists, here's your chance to add to my list.

#1. The Christian when leaving the restaurant forgets to tip, yet manages to remember to leave a Christian track.

#2. This guy happens to be a friend of mine. I would tell you his name, but it changes every few years. But we will call this guy, Softball Church Boy. (SCB)
Every game SCB manages to argue with the umpires, question the Manager, yell at his teammates for not being "good enough" and causing bench clearing brawls with the other team. Then after the game he always apologizes to everyone by saying "God just made me real competitive". I could just imagine how this would go over with Mrs. Feeno? Gee honey, I'm sorry I slept with your sister, God just made me real horny. Or what I would tell the Judge, Sorry Judge I robbed that bank, but, God just made me real greedy?

#3. DM

Peace be with you all.



  1. DM might have been a real spammer, but I think the recent DM is someone else, probably an atheist/agnostic.

    I can't stand when people attribute things to God, from the Lakers winning to their kids graduating. Do people really think God is micromanaging everything? I mean yes, if there is a God I'm sure He can do whatever He wants, but I would bet most everything is on autopilot.

    *flips coin and covers it*

    Head: there's a God; tails: there isn't.


    Doesn't prove anything.

    There's also situations that I try to avoid because regardless of who I'm talking to, religious crap will come up. Anything relating to severe illness or death is particularly annoying. That's one time it's good to know who your atheist friends are, because the last thing you want to deal with when someone is dead or dying is someone shoving religion down your throat.

    Yeah I know their intent, but you know what? When someone tells me someone they know died, I don't say, "Well, now they don't exist in any capacity except your memory," or "You can honor your dead mother by having off-spring and propagating her genes." I may think it, but that's because I am insane. They let me out because I keep to myself now...

  2. DM believes that Depeche Mode (the band) was foreseen by Nostradamus. Weird huh?

  3. Geenks

    Agree. And do they think God had it out for Kevin Garnett?


    Let me google Depeche Mode then I'll let ya know.

    late, feen

  4. "but I think the recent DM is someone else, probably an atheist/agnostic."

    I was thinking maybe he is a "shism" of the Westbro Baptists crew, cause lately he`s always threatning ta kill folks .How far is it between the theism of "God hates America", to "your dead! god hates you".Im sure he must be ex Westbro Baptist.

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  6. Here's one for you Feeno...

    I had a cousin who was raped by a Church deacon and an elder at our church.

    The guy had recently paid for the new parking lot at our church.

    The Pastor called a prayer meeting. The elders stood around and prayed to cure the deacon of his demons, then they prayed for god to forgive him, and there was a laying on of hands to heal his dark and shattered soul.

    The next week he was sitting in his usual spot.

    Now I'm adding this sort of Christian to your list: the Pastor to believes in God so much that he believes that saying a few prayers will "magically" cure a chronic pedophile rapist with and then instead of holding the rapist accountable deems him forgiven and healed in the name of Jesus.

    It wasn't until a couple of months later when four more families came out with the news that their 8 year old girls had been complaining about the mean man touching them in their private places during Sunday school that the pastor couldn't just forgive and forget.

    Often times the phrase, "Hate the sin but love the sinner" gets thrown around liberally in Christian circles. How about this, hate the sin and get rid of the damn sinner and screw the damn parking lot.

    This all happened when I was 14 years old. I stayed a Christian for another 15 years.

    The Pastor was eventually forced out, but the new guy, well he was genuinely delusional. He would have trances and then speak in tongues and hop around the podium on stage. Then he'd raise the Bible high, and say, "Yes Lord! I hear you!" And then he'd proceed to inform us as to the lord's message. A genuine vessel of God.

    And to tell you the truth... I can't for the life of me tell you which one was the more scary.

    Pedophile deacon
    Apathetic Pastor
    Delusional Pastor

    And this all went on in my little Church. How many more churches I wonder experience this sort of thing but never make it public. Not a single local newspaper reported on these rapes. The court case was kept mum. To talk about it was to besmirch the churches name.

    Literally, this event ruined lives... destroyed the lives of five little girls, shattered their families, fractured a community, and yet these sincere Christians, all because they were true believers, believed... truly believed in their heart of hearts... that God was loving enough to forgive the worst of men. The delusion runs thick.

    I'll add two more types of Christian to the list.

    The Christian who thinks God is all forgiving.


    The Christian who thinks God is just and will punish the evil doers after they die by holding them accountable. Yeah, tell that to the little girls who all got raped.

  7. Wow... just to lighten things up after Tristan rape-bombed the comments (which was a "great" story, in the same way Precious was a great movie and train-wrecks are impossible to turn away from).

    What about the "hardcore" Christians? I'm not saying Christians have to be wimps, but what is the limit? Tattoos for the Savior... heavy metal Christian rock... when can I expect abortions for Jesus?

  8. T Vick

    Happy fathers day.

    Now to this disturbing story. If that happened in my church, or most Christian churches I know about, by the time the deacons get together to pray for him, they've already called the cops and every parent who had a child that that guy had been around.

    The deacons in my church would pray for him to get the maximum penalty under the law, and spend the rest of his life behind bars. Most would suggest we castrate him and then bury his ass under the new parking lot he paid for. But as he is in prison I do hope he finds the Lord and gets right with God.

    Because God is all forgiving. But God judges peoples hearts, not what they act like or portray to the world or their neighbors. Many people join the church just so they can be around kids, because they are immoral pedophile SOB's who are preying on kids. Most churches now a days realize this and go to great lengths to stop it. At my church you can't even work with the young people until you are fingerprinted and have a background check. And even then there is usually someone else in the same room with them or monitoring the building.

    Dude, do you really think you had to add this guy to the list? Like you might get an argument from someone? I think it goes with out saying we don't need to list all murderers, rapists, pedophiles and violent people who claim to be Christians. I think both sides would agree about these people.

    Vick, do you really think the average Believer is any less repulsed by acts like these than any other person.

    And the town this happened in must have a pretty weak newspaper or the church owns it, because that's front page news and lead story on the 6 o'clock news any where else.

    We mustn't lose sight that we are talking about real people here. I hope your cousin has recovered some from this. It ain't right or fair she had to endure this tragedy. But if we can't work together to keep creeps like this off the street, it's gonna just take longer. Your pointing a finger at the church like that's the only place to find child molesters.

    Believe me if you want to know the true facts they are available. But I don't think that would appropriate right now. Maybe later when were talking hypothetically.

    Sheez man,really?

    I need to calm down. Thanks for your response, and I do hope you have a wonderful Fathers day. You already have a wonderful little girl.

    Peace, feeno

  9. Geenks

    No kidding, thank you.


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  11. Well the rapist was a Christian. But part of the Christian premise is that we're all fallen and need of saving.

    It's a superstitious claim which, in part, lent itself to the horrors I spoke about.

    But I don't care so much about the plight of a rapist as long as just as long as justice be done... and that's why we have secular laws after all.

    My concern was more about the pastor who idly sat by knowing this had happened and did nothing. But this grim portrait of a rapist isn't so uncommon in Fundamentalist churches.

    Rape is a standard fair in FLDS and the like.Christian Evangelical and also Baptist churches have a high level of rape also.Not to mention the commonly known cases in the Catholic church.

    Here's an article for you to consider:

    and here:

    My question to Christians would be: why the continued incidents? Is being fallen an excuse? No, it's not. These cases show one of the failures of religion--to make good on producing good people.

  12. Feeno i hear exactly what you are saying about the average Believer not being any less repulsed by acts like these than any other person are thats true.

    But i also hear what Tristan is saying that far to many times, whole church "groups" have protected and hidden these problems.The figure of how many cases have actually been hidden and abusive priests protected, is way more than many people often even realize.Because its hushed up.

    Tristan is not suggesting secular humans dont rape people, hes saying its no real great improvement when whole faith "groups" work towards covering it up and trying their best at pretending it never even happened.

    I think part of the problem is the idea of Humans being fallen, often gets used as a type of excuse.

  13. First a reminder:

    I describe myself as agnotistic as pertains to broad realm of metaphysics. I don't propose to KNOW whether there is a God or not. But if there is I am confident that "HE" is not "JEHOVAH". Whatever "IT" might be it is clearly (in my mined) not omnibenevolent and omnipotent, to cite two of the "classical" characteristics of God. To most Christians that would qualify me as an Atheist, a label I don't care to argue or discuss unless somebody REALLY wants to. And even then I might decline, depending on who, and why, they want to hammer it out.

    For an Average Joe I have done a fair amount of reading in history, philosphy, and theology. I think some folks in the religious community presume that anyone who does not believe in Jehovah would have no interest in, or knowledge about, matters theological. Entirely contradictory to the vast numbers of non-believers with considerable personal experience in, and knowledge of, Christianity. T-Vick, Jeffy el Jefe (correct me if I'm wrong), and the Gandy Man for example.

    Now, I'm not here to disrupt anyones belief system. That Feeno or anybody else finds meaning and purpose through Christianity does not bother me in the least and I do not see it as a failing I need to correct. You sure won't find me playing the Troll on Christian websites casting insults or provoking contention. What would be the point?

    I don't believe that "non-believers" are inherently intellectually or morally superior to people of Faith. In the same vein, I certainly don't see any evidence that they are inferior, again, either intellectually or morally. It does seem somewhat absurd to me that some Christians, maybe even most, believe that what really distinguishes them from the non-Christian is that there wrong-doings, failures, and crimes are "forgiven" while the same sins of others are not. It seems like some Christians seem to operate on the notion that they have been given an endless supply of "get out of jail free" cards in some kind of Cosmic game of Monopoly. Only a fool would pass up that opportunity, if they could believe it were true.

    Well, maybe so. Maybe John 3:16 is the greatest truth ever revealed to mankind. But as much as I might like to believe it, I can't...

    As for me, I take personal responsibility for what I feel, think, say and do. All of those things contribute to my own well-being and the well-being of others. I do not need an ancient manuscript to consult to determine the value of my life, it's meaning and purpose. That does not mean that I have no interest in the reading of ancient religious texts or deny that there is nothing of value to be learned or taken from them. Quite to the contrary, in fact, but I digress...

    I do not believe that I am the center of the Universe. I do not believe that the most I can accomplish in life, or that the highest purpose of my life, is to maximize my pleasure and minimize my pain. And even in my own idiosyncratic way it would not be untrue to say that I am "religious". But if you don't believe as I believe, if you don't see and perceive as I see and perceive, there is certainly no eternal reward or punishment awaiting you.

    But I could be wrong. So do what you think is right, as long as you don't harm others in the process. And the Gandy Man has certainly offered considerable personal testimony about the reality of religion to do great harm in that regard.

    Now that I've got that off my chest I feel better now. I hope you do too...


  14. By the way Feeno, you are still one of my favorite Christians. You do not appear to be arrogant, hypocritical, or judgemental. Plus you have a great sense of humour! I'm pretty sure that I would enjoy hangin' with you in the Real World. I've got to respect your willingness to engage non-believers. From where I sit you seem to be someone who is walkin' the walk, not just talkin' the talk on Sunday. And that's always good to see!



  15. My concern was more about the pastor who idly sat by knowing this had happened and did nothing. But this grim portrait of a rapist isn't so uncommon in Fundamentalist churches.

    It saddens me to hear about what happened to your cousin. As bad as such a horrible crime seems, the cover-up seems also as bad.

    When you say that this "isn't so uncommon in Fundamentalist churches" do you mean a local, independent church or one that is officially part of one of the major, mainstream denominations? I know that the major denominations demand that in such cases that both the secular AND ecclesiastical authorities are notified.

    Unfortunately, such a widespread, uniform, zero-tolerance reporting policy hadnt begun to come into being until about 20-30 years ago. This doesnt really help your cousin at all. The police should have been notified.

  16. JD-

    The police were notified--but by the parents involved.

    Yet in a small town of 5,000 people, where everyone knows everyone, and the churches all maintain a sort of prestige in the region, there is a lot riding on maintaining a reputation as an institution of God.

    In this particular case, I feel that the community officials, the church elders, and the pastor just wanted it to blow over and let the authorities handle it all.

    But what they neglected to realize was that legal proceedings would take months to get underway, and a year before a verdict, especially since the man's wife stood by his side and denied all the accusations.

    When you halve a church split between those who have been victimized, and those who just don't want to believe something so awful could have occurred in their house of God--there is bound to be a rift. Some left the Church to the one across the street. Others left the town completely.

    In such times the Pastor, Minister, or Priest is supposed to be the beacon of support... but some men are not made of sterner stuff. They have weak constitutions, or else they are ill-prepared, lack training, or don't know how to deal with all the added stress a leadership role requires of them.

    I've seen it first hand, I've heard of numerous similar stories, and although I understand that rape is a regrettable part of the human condition, I feel that it just goes to show that we are not made in the image of any divine supreme being. We are poorly evolved, and struggle to fight our primitive natures.

    Even so, I tend to be an optimist, I feel this will--this capacity to strive to become something better--to be more humane perchance to supply meaning to what it truly means to be human (and the acknowledgment that we can be more than mere primates) is astonishing.

    What depresses me about the whole thing, and what I never got over, was that so many "God-fearing" folk chose to use faith-based excuse as a smoke screen for not wanting to deal with the reality of the situation. It was much easier to defer all responsibility onto God.

    God will provide, God will make good, God will come through in the end. All they needed to do was have faith. But none of this helped the victims any, and a year later the pervert was tried and convicted, a month later he died of cancer. So much for justice.

    Oddly enough, the new Pastor said is was the hand of God smiting him for his evil ways. But he had been diagnosed with cancer before the rapes, so go figure.

  17. I always wonder: are they protecting the congregation or do they believe the apology is genuine and sufficient?