Monday, May 3, 2010

hotdogs, hamburgers and hate speech, be there or be square

Do you guys feel like some Atheists must demonize Christianity to make their choice of atheism look more appealing? Does it give some of them a morale high ground? Let me tell you about a typical week in a typical Christian church and how some atheists will interpret this.

Sunday School. 9:00 am. Reading through the Bible together and discussing it.
ATHEIST: They are being brain washed.

Worship hour. 10:45 am. Sing praises to, and worship our Creator.
ATHEIST: they are just creating a atmosphere of belonging for new recruits. And trying to raise money for the Preachers new mansion.

Wednesday night. 6:00 pm. Dinner and fellowship.
ATHEIST: This is their built in networking group and underground republican election pep rally.

Wednesday night 7:00 pm. Bible study on Pharaoh's killing of the Israelite babies.
ATHEIST: Abortion clinic bombing update.

Saturday am. outreach. Pass out food, clothing or pray for any one we can.
ATHEIST: Just to add to the numbers of their church, if they can't convert them, they wont help them or really pray for them.

Saturday night 7:00 pm. Barb-b-q at feeno's
ATHEISTS: meeting to discuss how Christians are the best and that it should be legal for our Priests or Preachers to abuse kids, but gays, atheists, and abortion doctors should be ridiculed, beaten and never allowed in our churches because they are all possessed by the devil.

I am sworn to secrecy, so I can't tell you how we decode our church bulletins, but for all the Christians reading this, let me just say "the lazy dog church social has been canceled until the Pastors health improves" "we shall gather by the river" hymn # 152. c38@)^jQ9@)lkhpzc

feeno

43 comments:

  1. Conspiracies are not out in the open, and I don't think Christians have much to hide. It's not code, but up to a point your parodies are eerily... accurate.

    What is reading from the Bible? I wouldn't called it "brainwashing," because that sounds like something you do for someone with a dirty mind or shit for brains. Indoctrination, maybe, but I would settle for "religious education." Religion is, afterall, a system of preserving and passing down information.

    Abortion clinic bombings? What is this, the 90's?

    I don't think most people have a problem with the community aspect of religion, nor do they begrudge their charity work, but it baffles me when I literally hear religious people saying we should cut government programs because churches should be doing the charity. When I hear things like that, what I hear is, "People shouldn't depend on the government... they should depend on churches."

    I don't think atheists are oppressed, though I do feel that gay people are. Also, kids are far more likly to be sexually abused by family members than by clergy, but I don't oppose families.

    One thing though: can you honestly tell me you haven't heard someone accuse someone else of being possessed by the devil or some other sort of demon?

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  2. Sorry, Feeno. As funny as it is, and I do think that it is, here is mine. And, this is what I think.

    Sunday School. 9:00 am. Reading through the Bible together and discussing it.
    BORING

    Worship hour. 10:45 am. Sing praises to, and worship our Creator.
    SO DORKY.... ARE IPODS CONSIDERED A MIRACLE TO THOSE PEOPLE?

    Wednesday night. 6:00 pm. Dinner and fellowship.
    COULD DO THE SAME AT STARBUCKS

    Wednesday night 7:00 pm. Bible study on Pharaoh's killing of the Israelite babies.
    ABSOLUTELY UNNECESSARY

    Saturday am. outreach. Pass out food, clothing or pray for any one we can.
    CUT TO THE CHASE- WOULDN'T THE GIRLS BE HOTTER IF YOU HAD A CARWASH?

    Saturday night 7:00 pm. Barb-b-q at feeno's
    FREE BEER?

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  3. I don't think most people have a problem with the community aspect of religion, nor do they begrudge their charity work, but it baffles me when I literally hear religious people saying we should cut government programs because churches should be doing the charity. When I hear things like that, what I hear is, "People shouldn't depend on the government... they should depend on ch

    I really like this. Another reading of this could be that religious people would be better suited to sanction charity. So, the people that they do not support would be lower on the list.

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  4. Geenks, yeah, I'm not a big fan of the "possessed" card. And yes I've heard it more than once.

    Tink, I must go wash my brain out with soap. I can't help imagining you in some Daisey Dukes and a wet t-shirt washing cars. And of course you can wet your whistle in my back yard with a ice cold PBR.

    Late, feen

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  5. Feeno, I have to say I think you're projecting. You feel that atheists must demonise Christianity to make atheism more appealing because you think it isn't appealing otherwise. The simple reason why it's appealing to most atheists is that it appears to be correct.

    9:00am - Indoctrination isn't always brainwashing but the indoctrination of children with information and beliefs we think are false is something we want to prevent. Can you blame us?

    10:45am - Church services don't just create an atmosphere of belonging for new converts, but they do do that among other things. I don't know enough about the distribution of church takings to comment, and I don't begrudge the church its primary source of income.

    Wednesday, 6:00pm - It is a built-in networking group, which is something the non-religious tend to envy. It's harder to assemble atheists on average. Only a few churches tell their congregations to vote Republican, but some of them do and they violate church-state separation in the process. (JD may challenge me on this.)

    7:00pm - When was the last time you were in a study group that examined the mass infanticide and the topic of abortion didn't come up? Clinic bombings and doctor assassinations tend to be planned only by individuals and fringe groups, but their line of thinking has to start somewhere.

    Saturday, am: Just because the kinds of charitable activities churches organise are excellent opportunities to 1. preach to grateful people and 2. show the church in a positive light, it doesn't mean that participants aren't also driven by genuine altruism. But they do it at least partly to achieve those two things. Some evangelists and missionaries around the world make their assistance contingent on people listening or even converting.

    Saturday, 7:00pm - Do you talk to your friends about us? Do you discuss apologetic and proselytising from time to time? Probably. But that's your business.

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  6. LX

    As usual you bring fair and sound points to the table. I don't necessarily believe atheism couldn't appeal to you guys. But if you read Gandolph's last comments on our last post, you'll see why I wrote this.

    Yes, I've mentioned you guys to some of my friends and my Pastor. But here's how much they think about it. My best friend Tiger aka Gonz will ask me on occasion, "Hey feen, hows them commie buddies of yours doing?" So, take that for what it's worth.

    But of course we would like to see you all in one of our churches this week. But it's not for our gain, but yours. However we do feel a sense of great joy when someone comes to our church and then eventually accepts Christ as Lord.

    Dueces o' smart one, feeno

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  7. Yeah, 'course you're happy when new people come to where you are. Who isn't?

    Cheers.

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  8. Actually, Feeno. I think that it is good that you talk to us. I know this sounds crazy, but I am sure that many people in your church would never talk to us. I am sure that you learn from us, as we learn from you. Part of the problem in this world is poor dialogue between groups, especially religious people with us heathens. This where it can start, and slowly, I would like to think that we can impact change. I know that my agenda is very different from what I thought that it would be when I started the research for this book. And, that partly has to do with the stuff we do blogging.

    As for Daisy Dukes.... Hate to break it to you. I am more of a fully dressed Christian Louboutin, Radiohead tshirt wearing girl who is telling the girls how to wash the cars. But, free beer is always good.

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  9. I am slightly annoyed right now. I just typed a 1000 word essay and fraking blogger.com got a system error, and I lost everything I typed.

    Anyway. My favorite Ginx quote of all time is this:

    "I wouldn't [call] it "brainwashing," because that sounds like something you do for someone with a dirty mind or shit for brains."

    This is awesome, I'm going to steal it.

    Feeno: So your buddy thinks us nasty atheists are commies? I am not a commie. I don't even like commies. I don't understand why someone's position on the existence of God has anything to do with political affiliation.

    I have nothing against faith-based charitable work. What I am against is lobbying to block or water-down scientific education in schools. Science is a good thing, and to have a good understanding of science is essential to being a good citizen. This is a complex world, and to make good decisions, one has to understand how everything inter-relates and works together, and this is where science comes in. Especially in a democracy where ordinary citizens vote. You want your voters to be super-duper educated, that way they make better decisions, and everybody benefits.

    And I'm not talking just mathematics and evolutionary biology, but history too. Yeah, history is not a 'social study' or whatever ridiculous thing they call that in the US nowadays. History is a data-driven science. You look at factors and events, cause and effect, and you look for patterns. The careful study of history can help you predict the future; or make it happen the way you want, if you know what you are doing.

    Peace on Earth.

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  10. Lordship

    I really don't think Tiger thinks all Atheists are communists, he just confuses the two. In other words he's not obsessed with you all. That was my point.

    And Geenks has had to many good quotes to just choose one, but he called one of my Christian brothers "Comrade Chicken Little" once. And I have used that several times since. But not on-line.

    BTW, I feel your pain. I have written long thought out stuff I thought was da bomb, just to see me delete it somehow. And when you try to write it again you've lost some of your attitude and thoughts and it just ain't the same.

    Good night, feeno

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  11. A propos?

    I've personally wondered why some atheists are so evangelical about their position. What's the point? If I'm a deluded fool, then so what? They should be happy, if for no other reason, having so many of us in church in Sunday mornings frees up a boatload of tee times at the golf course.

    Cheers.

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  12. @ R Sherman-
    Not all of you are so laissez faire about your faith. And, way too many of you push your agenda on the rest of us, and we have had to fight back. That is it in a nutshell.

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  13. @ R Sherman

    Stem cell research, which would have saved millions of lives and progressed medicine at an accelerated rate, had to end because of ignorant religious sensibility. I am hoping that does end up back on the table.

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  15. Geenks

    It wasn't easy for me to delete your last comment. I'm really sorry I did it. It was a real morale dilemma. But I promise you that if those remarks were directed at me, I would not have deleted it.

    But I just felt since this is my place, I need to be considerate of others. I was just thinking of them. I hope you understand and don't think I'm a big wuss.

    Late, feeno

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  16. R Sherman, we suffer for the actions of "deluded fools" (I personally think being wrong doesn't automatically make someone a fool). We lose our freedom from religion, we are painted as evil and foolish ourselves, we become less welcome in the world. You can't tell me there's no harm to atheists when millions of people believe what Pat Robertson says about us.

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  17. Yeah, we wouldn't want to hurt that pussy's feelings...

    And no, I don't understand why people delete comments. Go back to the church group forums if your virgin minds might end up "taint"ed.

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  18. As to political questions and pursuing an "agenda," let me suggest without snark or vitriol that that's the point of democracy. Everybody gets to play, regardless of what motivates them. Each of us has a moral world view. By definition, every time there's an election, 51% impose that world view on 49%.

    I have long maintained that the debate in the public arena about issues is best waged when, and only when, both sides agree to play in the same ballpark. Stated differently, Feeno and I might discuss a political issue from a Christian perspective, but I wouldn't dream of doing so with someone who does not accept Judaic-Christian principles as an appropriate way of organizing society. I'm perfectly happy to engage anyone on his/her terms.

    Cheers.

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  20. Anthropologist David Eller, author of a college textbook entitled: Introducing Anthropology of Religion: Culture to the Ultimate (Routledge, 2007), lists six functions of religion in society:

    1. Filling individual needs, especially psychological or emotional needs. Religion provides comfort, hope, perhaps love, definitely a sense of control, and relief from fear and despair.

    2. Explanation, especially of origins or causes. Humans wonder why things are as they are. How did the world start? How did humans start? . . .

    3. Source of rules and norms. . . . religion can provide the answer to where the traditions and laws of the society came from. . . . This is the charter function of religion: It acts as the "charter" or guideline or authority by which we organize ourselves in particular ways and follow particular standards. Why do we practice monogamy? Because a religious being or precedent says to, or because the first humans did, etc. Why do other societies practice polygamy? Perhaps because their religious being or precedent (say, the ancestor or founder) said it or did it.

    4. Source of "ultimate sanctions." Religion is, among other things, a means of social control. . . . a large part of religion is about what we should do, how we should live. . . . Human agents of social control cannot be everywhere and cannot see everything, and the rewards and punishments they can mete out are finite. . . .

    5. Solution of immediate problems. . . . If we are sick or distressed, are the beings or forces angry with us? What should we do about it? If there is an important social or political decision to make (say, going to war), is there a way to discover the preferences or plans of the beings and forces--to "read their mind"? Can we ask them for favors, give them gifts, or do anything at all to influence their actions and intentions?

    6. Fill "needs of society." . . . Certainly, not everything that a religion teaches or practices is good for every individual: Human sacrifice is not about fulfilling the needs of sacrificial victims. Nor does religion always soothe individual fears and anxieties; for instance, the belief in a punitive afterlife may cause people to fear more, and concerns about proper conduct of rituals can cause anxiety. However, belief in a punitive afterlife can cause people to obey norms, which is good for society. The primary need of society, beyond the needs of individuals, is integration, cohesion, and perpetuation, and religion can provide an important "glue" toward that end.

    I think much of the reason people go to church is summed up in numbers 1 and 6, but has aspects in all of them. I think the religious psychology is more complex than simple brainwashing. Although there is a lot of that going on too.

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  21. Is that what you really think we care about? We are a collection of individuals with on thing in common. We do not believe in God. Beyond that, all bets are off. I know atheists who want to picket churches and I know atheists who are best friends with pastors. One thing I know for sure, we don't really care what you do in church. We care what you try to legislate. Project your morality on us and we speak up.

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  22. Mojo

    'Sup Holmes. Welcome, and thanks for stopping by and commenting. Good thoughts, I don't think anyone around here would disagree with you.

    I would be curios to know tho, if we (Believers) can try to legislate things as well? And don't you have a morality to project?

    Read what R Sherman wrote about 2 or 3 comments before yours. I think we all are saying the same thing. I don't blame you for voting your conscience or trying to change legislation to fit your worldview. Everyone should.

    Peace be wit ya, feeno

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  23. Feenobly said...."feeno said...
    LX

    As usual you bring fair and sound points to the table. I don't necessarily believe atheism couldn't appeal to you guys. But if you read Gandolph's last comments on our last post, you'll see why I wrote this."

    Grrrrrrr damm atheist upstarts .....Grrrrrr wheres blogger DM when we need him

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  24. R. Sherman said... "A propos?

    I've personally wondered why some atheists are so evangelical about their position. What's the point? If I'm a deluded fool, then so what? They should be happy, if for no other reason, having so many of us in church in Sunday mornings frees up a boatload of tee times at the golf course."

    You honestly feel theres no good reason to be a little worried about deluded fools ?.

    Are you quietly happy Mahmoud Ahmadineijad is into the prolification of nuclear arms ?? .If the deluded old coot enjoys playing with nuclear fireworks,what the hell who cares huh !?? .Why would people ever be having any good reason to get all evangelical about suggesting maybe it might be a great idea if he decides to stop it.

    Even the first paragraph of that Los Angeles times it says ..."What -- did their Sunday school teachers flog their behinds with a Bible when they were kids?"

    Shows how how ignorant some folks actually are, and goes some way towards suggesting things that the likes of Dawkins,Hitchen and Harris etc say, could actually possibly be quite correct.

    Damm sure its very very likely the type of abuse described has taken place a plenty in many faith situations....What with scripture suggesting "He who spareth the rod hateth his son" and whatnot

    Faithful folks i grew up with were sure pretty keen on dishing the violence out.....That is until i finally had had a guts full of it and decided to start smacking folks real hard back.Guess the golden rule suggested to me,maybe this was what they abusers really expected.

    And in the next paragraph in that artical they are making fun of folks feeling they need to hide their non belief....Cant understand why?? they consider this so funny because even here in little secular NZ, i know for sure it can be a real problem that can see your faith family totally disown and excommunicate from you just because you dont share the same faith ...Why some theist fool writing in that Los Angeles times would make fun of it beats me??, when its so obvious faith has long been quite a ruling factor in the USA......Were they trying to prove Dawkins right?? when on page2 they quote him as saying..."they are; often rather stupid"

    I read right through it and im sure it likely it was written by theists hopeing to take a poke at non believers .....But all as i can say as a non believer is i found myself wondering what drugs they are dishing out in church these days ,,,,Talk about allowing folks enough rope they will simply go ahead and hang themselves

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  25. *************************************************
    how about I believe in WHATEVER I want - even in the FLYING SPAGHETTI
    MONSTER! - and you have nothing to say!
    *******************************************************************

    let me show you the end results of this particular *ONE-DIMENSIONAL SCIENTIFIC MODE*
    of thinking that is called *CRITICAL THINKING*, which is completely divorced from
    any human objectives...

    this style has been perfected by dawkins, pz, randi and the other *NEW ATHEISTS*
    **
    THE BOOBQUAKE - 911!
    ***
    hey, atheists don't even BELIEVE IN BOOBIES!!!
    they thought BOOBIES had no effect... WRONG!

    see, I just want to make it clear to the rest of you:
    jen is unable to see that there is a CONFLICT BETWEEN EROS & SCIENCE....

    http://www.blaghag.com/2010/04/in-name-of-science-i-offer-my-boobs.html

    http://www.blaghag.com/2010/04/quick-clarification-about-boobquake.html

    see how we take a term and convert it into its AUTHENTIC POLITICAL DIMENSION - THAT
    OF LIBERATION - not just merely harmless expression...

    Visit for the BOOBQUAKE:

    http://dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net/philosophy-f1/the-boobquake-911-t1310.htm


    why do you waste your time with such nonsense as *atheism*? Who are you trying to convince of your delusion?


    turn to MARXISM...

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  26. Dude,

    I waited by the "River" until 3 A.M. this morning with the Crosses, Holy Water, and other materials you requested in your message and no one else ever showed up.

    Are you sure you didn't mean we were going to "sing" hymn 96, "On Yonder Hill We Shall Gather In His Name."

    I await further instruction.

    Hopefully the Right Ones!

    Reverend Sub Cee

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  27. Man, David Mabus is getting weirder.

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  28. Sub Coolio
    We'll keep you abreast.

    LX,
    David Mabus aka DM? I'm not sure I even know what message he's trying to get across. Is he a Christian?

    late, feen

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  29. His real name's Dennis Markuze. He's primarily a believer in the prophecies of Nostradamus, and an anti-atheist. He goes on any religion-themed blog he can find, no matter which side it's on, with links that supposedly discredit whatever prominent atheists have been talking about lately. This time it's the Boobquake. He's become a running gag.

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  30. the writing on the wall...

    for the idiot called *

    f*ck you very much!

    Atheists!!!

    **************************

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg

    ************************************
    see, you degenerates have last names like first names...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster


    ************************************************************
    how about I believe in WHATEVER I want - even in the FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER! - and you have nothing to say!
    ************************************************************

    let me show you the end results of this particular *ONE-DIMENSIONAL SCIENTIFIC MODE*
    of thinking that is called *CRITICAL THINKING*, which is completely divorced from
    any human objectives...

    this style has been perfected by dawkins, pz, randi and the other *NEW ATHEISTS*
    **
    THE BOOBQUAKE - 911!


    see how we take a term and convert it into its AUTHENTIC POLITICAL DIMENSION - THAT
    OF LIBERATION - not just merely harmless expression...

    visit


    http://dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net/philosophy-f1/the-boobquake-911-t1310.htm

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  31. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  32. I haven't visited for a while. Then the first post I see demeans atheists in the same way you think we demean Christians.

    The atheists I know, myself included, do not sit around and worry about what's going on in the church down the road. We simply don't believe as you do.

    But I don't believe in a lot of things. And I find it difficult to believe many others. Among those are: alien abductions, astrology, that there are more than a handful of honest politicians, or that anyone could dislike chocolate.

    If I had to guess what goes on in your church, I would assume that a bunch of like-minded people have gotten together to affirm their beliefs and work toward common goals. It probably isn't a whole lot different than any other group which meets regularly, be it the Elks, the Chamber of Commerce, or the Girls Scouts --- except for the supernatural part. Every group has an agenda. Every group tries to raise money and recruit members.

    I'm also sure that in any church, on any given day, there are doubters. I was one of them at one time and so were many other agnostics and atheists. The "Washington Post" recently published an article on ministers who no longer believe, but continue to preach because otherwise they are stuck without a profession. One of the co-presidents of the Freedom From Religion Foundation had been an evangelical minister for many years before he stopped believing.

    I sometimes criticize religious people on my blog. I criticize either specific individuals (mostly blatant hypocrites) or specific groups who have behaved badly. But individuals who happen to be religious? It's their right to believe as they wish. I only ask that they respect my right to NOT believe as I respect their right to believe.

    Yes, I admit that sometimes I wonder how the religious can believe as they do. But you have to admit that Christians must ask themselves how anyone could ever have believed in Isis, Zeus, or Thor. Do you not wonder how Muslims can believe that terrorist martyrs will be rewarded with 72 virgins or what those 72 virgins would want to do with a terrorist? Do you question the sanity of Christians who handle rattle snakes as part of their rituals? Do you dismiss the beliefs of Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses? Don't you ask yourself how an atheist can NOT believe what is so obvious to you? Of course you do. We all do that.

    Yes, there are some atheists who get off on trying to make religious people look stupid. But you have to admit there are many religious people who demonize atheists and others who don't believe as they do. Pat Robertson claims every natural disaster is caused by gays, feminists, and atheists, among others. How can a "good" Christian believe that an all-loving God would take revenge on those groups of people by killing so many others in New Orleans, Haiti or Chile?

    How do you think Pat Robertson would imagine a meeting of atheists? I suppose he might write something similar to your post, substituting atheism for Christianity.

    We don't believe what we see. We see what we believe. Two individuals could attend a religious debate. A Christian would come away even more convinced that the Christian was right. The non-believer would believe the atheist had come out on top. We all tend to see and believe the arguments that affirm our own long-held beliefs. I'm not saying people can't change their minds, but it rarely happens and if it does, it is a long, slow process.

    You might find this post interesting: Can Christians & Atheists Get Along?

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  33. 量力而為,別勉強了,Cut your coat according to your cloth..............................................

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  34. Hey feeno, where are ya buddy? You haven't been around for like three weeks now! For shame...what more important things could you possibly have to do besides updating your blog?? :)

    Jeff

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  35. Never mind any arbitrary expectations of update schedules on the part of your readers, Feeno, you've got spam coming in like the Asian thing above. Gotta prune that crap.

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  36. Jeff said.."For shame...what more important things could you possibly have to do besides updating your blog?? :)"

    Remembering to follow the doctors orders, this time around,so he doesnt once again enrage the house boss on the next special weekend away

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  37. 知識可以傳授,智慧卻不行。每個人必須成為他自己。..................................................

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  38. Jeff, Gandy and LX

    I have missed you guys very much and am thankful somebody actually realized I have been away. I will try really hard to get a new post out this weekend. I've missed all the critiques and your view of things.

    Although I've been busy at work, I haven't forgot about you all in my prayers. Even if you don't want me to, too bad, cause I already do.

    My business is picking up a little bit. Plus I am laying most all the tile myself. I have a helper and get occasional help from a few of the guys that used to do a lot of work for me when we were real busy back in the day. Also my body usually aches all over after a long day of work. Plus life in general has been busy... wife, kids, church, friends, parents (uhg) etc.
    Same with you all except the church part.

    Not sure about that Asian thing tho? Maybe I'm like the Michael Jackson of the blog world?

    Look forward to posting something this weekend, thanks again for remembering me.

    C Woods left a nice response, maybe I can address some of that?

    Hope everyone is doing well.

    Peace, feeno

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  39. I had no idea what you do for a living. No wonder you're busy.

    The Asian is Chinese, and the text is generic platitudes. The last one begins, "One can impart knowledge but not wisdom." I wouldn't click the link if you paid me. It's straightforward spam and you should delete it if you can.

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  40. Feeno whatever you do, dont do your back in.Ive had a back opp for a ruptured disc.Believe me,its not worth it, even if its done through want of making money.They cant ever totally fix it again,they can only stop the sciatica.

    Just take care!

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  41. Good lookin' out Gandy!

    feen

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