Monday, February 8, 2010

Dyin' aint much of a livin' boy

I mentioned how I might write about my weekend when I got home from my trip, and take a little vacation from "religion" talk. But I just can't help myself and I'd like to talk about God. Besides, although this is one of the best weekends of my year and already can't wait 'til next year, I'm not so sure it would be all that interesting to you all? His "Lordship the gun-toting Atheist" would probably enjoy all the fire power we bring to our gathering, but the rest is just eating, drinking PBR, smoking Rocky Patels and praising Jesus. Oh, I almost forgot, we cap it all off by watching the movie "The Outlaw Josie Wales".

But when you watch this movie, or any war movie it's interesting to watch these noble people willing to die for a cause. Amazing courageous people laying their life down for strangers. Is there a cause you would die for? In the Old Testament Moses tells God he'd be willing to die for his beloved Israelites. I think he meant a physical death? And like Moses I think I'd lay my physical life down for the sake of others. But in the New Testament the Apostle Paul actually tries to make a deal with God and that he'd give his "spiritual" life for his Jewish Brothers. Now that's just crazy. I wouldn't even consider doing that for my Mama.

I guess what I'm saying is I'd give up my physical life to save an Atheists. But I wouldn't give up my spiritual life, even if it saved the whole worlds.

Late, feeno

21 comments:

  1. What a question... would I give something I don't even believe I have? At the risk of sounding self-righteous, I would have to say yes. However, is it much of a sacrifice to give up something I have long believed I lacked in the first place? I think it would be quite a small token to give up my eternity for the eternity of even two others, let along the whole world.

    I don't think my stance is one of love, either. Afterall, who wants to spend eternity with you people?

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  2. Geenks

    "you people" Your funny. I'm not so bad though? I think you could muster up enough strength?

    Peace, feeno

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  3. Calls into question the status of the act of giving up one's physical life as "the ultimate sacrifice", doesn't it? Even when it comes to Jesus.

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  4. The question is, could you muster up the fortitute to endure any length of time around me? Conversations around here can be so vigorous, they qualify as Olympic events (most people's heart rates go up, that's for sure). Ask my wife, the current record holder in the Ginxatholon (an event that requires one to mentally jump from disjointed subjects such as the seceret of how they get the tab onto aluminum cans to what God's feet might smell like).

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  5. " But I wouldn't give up my spiritual life, even if it saved the whole worlds."

    Yeah and a muslim feels exactly the very same way as he spiritually goes about blowing certain infidel folks up.He wouldnt give up what he considders spiritual,even to save his own Mama either.Look how many muslim Mama`s get blown to peices, when the forces come to seek their justice.

    Personal salvation worldwide is actually always a very selfish matter.


    "I'm not so sure it would be all that interesting to you all? "

    Sounds like a excellent family gathering.I enjoy listening folks interesting accounts of family gatherings and the fun things they get up to.

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  6. "Live for nothing, or die for something." --Rambo

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  7. LX
    Jesus gave up his position in heaven, his riches, his authority and a most righteous and holy relationship with his Father, just so he could become like you and me. He took on a servants role by humbling himself to be spit on and mocked on his way to die a sinners death, which he wasn't, for the sake of others. Oh, and at anytime he could have just destroyed everyone with just a thought.
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    Geenks,
    I hope Mrs. Geenks has many gold medals on the mantle at home for putting up with your ass?
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    'Sup G
    Salvation is for everyone, so can it be selfish?

    And yeah, thanks. When we get together we always find beautiful places in the mountains and on lakes etc. We hike, climb, shoot pistols and even throw hatchets at stumps to show off our skills. But we've never found a place as pretty as yours yet. We may have to hold our 25 annual trip over there? This was our 14 annual.
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    T-Vick
    Which movie was that? I only liked "First Blood". I can't sit through the other ones. Just like "Rocky" it was the best. But RockyII through RockyXXV all sucked?

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    Later, feeno

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  8. "Jesus gave up his position in heaven, his riches, his authority and a most righteous and holy relationship with his Father, just so he could become like you and me."

    Well, no offense, but that's not really true. He came down to earth knowing that he was going to get that all back. It's like "giving up" your house to go camping, when you know full well that at the end of your time camping, you'll be heading back home.

    So Jesus' life on earth was just an extended camping trip. Of course, it didn't end too well (that crucifixion stuff kinda sucks, I guess)...but again, it's easy to give up something if you know you're going to get it all back...

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  9. Feeno, if Jesus was really the son of God and knew it, he gave all that up knowing he'd get it all back in what, to a deity, amounts to no time at all. The idea that he could have destroyed his tormentors at any time might even have been a comfort to him as he suffered, and helped him get through his period slumming it on Earth.

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  10. W'dup Jeff and LX

    I don't think we can appreciate what it must have been like to be holy and sinless and then put all the sins of the world on our shoulders at one time.

    We don't give sin a second thought. But to God sin is a big deal.

    Just my take anyway?

    Later, feen

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  11. "'Sup G
    Salvation is for everyone, so can it be selfish?"


    Feeno when Muslims blow themselves up over faith,they too feel its a spiritual thing they do,they too feel their actions are about salvation for everyone! or as many as they think they are able to save from the onslaught of the infidel.

    Id have to say that personally i feel that yes! this obviously involves a very selfish religiously indoctrinated type thinking.Im not saying these people personally are meaning to be selfish! because i know they think they are doing it for reasons of "Salvation is for everyone".

    Its their faith that makes these people blindly selfish.They dont mind how their faith effect any others!,hell not even if Mama dies!,salvation is all that matters!.

    I have experienced this selfish attitude of faith,faithful folks with salvation in their sites dont even mind if thoughts of salvation are causing some folks to suicide!.

    What even makes this problem so very much worse,is other faithful from other christian churches dont mind if this "faith attitude" is causing a selfish nature that causes suicide....All folks in these other churches care about is "their salvation" that they have in their sights!.

    Which is why laws of "faith freedoms" can still exist.These laws that allow for abuse to continue under the banner of freedom of faith.Only a selfish nature of faith of need of laws of faith freedom for personal salvation,would allow folks to turn a blind eye to laws that allow for harm of others,right?.

    I can understand you not wanting to see it Feeno.Its nothing new to me....My own cult family wont allow themselves to see it either...If they do their whole cult comes tumbling down ...If they do allow themselves to see it straight like it is,they know they going to need to face knowing they helped cause the hurt and even death of many!.

    Im very used to faith being a very overbearing type thing,that seems to harden people hearts!,by way of making personal salvation! much more worthy of thought, than thoughts of just how this personal salvation might happen to effect others.

    Its definitly not a phenomena i have no personal experience of.

    Its not so very different to something like anorexia,where sombody thin through unshakable faith bent on salvation of getting skinnyer ,is driving their actions, that are also happening to constantly cause certain people much longterm pain.

    Those faithful of anorexia,feel the salvation of anorexia, is really honestly about being "for everyone" also.

    They would not even stop for a honest moment to considder who else their faith of anorexia, might be infecting .They do not care what other young person elswhere through their continued promotion of anorexia, might also be becoming of anorexia .

    No, their personal salvation by anorexia is all that matters.

    You really think its not a matter of being "selfish" at all Feeno?

    Feeno....>"We may have to hold our 25 annual trip over there? "

    Hey yes of course you would all be quite welcome.If your family ever thought of a trip out this way,it would be a pleasure! to try helping in what ever way i am able of helping you.

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  12. I don't think we can appreciate what it must have been like to be holy and sinless and then put all the sins of the world on our shoulders at one time.

    For about one week out of an eternity? With a seat in heaven to recover afterwards? From sins he himself allowed into the world in the first place, having made Adam, Eve, Satan and the tree from scratch? You're breaking my heart.

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  13. when Muslims blow themselves up over faith,they too feel its a spiritual thing they do,they too feel their actions are about salvation for everyone

    Great Gandolf. Now when we look at the practices of the followers of Mohammed and Jesus Christ, which seems to make more sense in the way we should treat others? Given that Mohammed took part in 66 battles and Jesus-0 might give you some sort of indication.

    Salvation through Christ Jesus is a free gift. Not something we are taught to murder innocent bystanders to obtain.

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  14. JD you are welcome to get involved in some competition to find who is the worse or the best etc,if it pleases your nature.But im not interested in being involved in that prosess! i cant see it will help matters,id rather focus on the root of the problem, than try looking for some special group to nail down as the worst abusers and so make some type of scapegoat outa them.

    Would you have us also choose who abuses worst within Christian groups,maybe you think singling people out, pointing to people who kill their children through refusing blood or whatever be worst....Might really achieve something?.

    When i look at gang problems,i look at gang problems in general...I dont cruize around town trying to single out the worst gang, making them feel persecuted .. Causing more devision! ,while pretending and suggesting im interested in being involved in gaining a more inclusive community.

    If there is a stone fight between children in a schoolyard,do you rush in and find out who was the "one" who threw the most stones JD?.Is that the best move to fix this problem?..Is that an adult type atitude fit for being a role model we would like future society to aspire to?.

    "Salvation through Christ Jesus is a free gift. Not something we are taught to murder innocent bystanders to obtain."

    Many Muslim translate the Koran and come away with a far more peaceful faith also,just as many Christian translate christian faith and for instance most dont even refuse medication in preferance of prayer.Most christians dont abuse this way.

    Im not here to poke fingers at whos supposedly the worst, and so in effect be involved in the bullshit idea that maybe somehow, one worst group being found guilty can somehow be held responsible for a phenomena that is widespread across the board, in all honesty happens to effect so very many more!

    What do you feel this competitive type way of problem solving actually likely to achieve? JD

    Are you trying to suggest and support some lame lost argument going nowhere,that supposedly nobody would have ever need have died by humans following the bible and jesus and christian thoughts of salvation?

    Yeah sure within christianity use of explosives is not chozen method for christian inforcement of christianity.The christian fundamentlist might choose to shoot a abortionist,or many choose the (far more legal forms of inforcement) that can kill people far more quietly and legally.Methods of manipulation and mindcontrol and shunning and segregation etc, which through stress and a great sense of faith imposed hoplessness, does indeed lead a certain number of people through utter despair suicide and death each and every year.

    What do we achieve in competitions between finding who the best and the worst?.When maybe the answer of the problem lays in the fact societies as a whole are who all help continue promote these attitudes in one way or another to some extent!.

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  15. maybe you think singling people out, pointing to people who kill their children through refusing blood or whatever be worst

    What is this? The Jehovah's Witnesses? Hardly representaive of Orthodox Christianity.

    Many Muslim translate the Koran and come away with a far more peaceful faith

    Approximately 7% of all of the wars in recorded history, according to military historians, are caused by religion. Would you care to guess which relatively recent newcomer on the world scene alone accounts for half of that total?

    Are you trying to suggest and support some lame lost argument going nowhere,that supposedly nobody would have ever need have died by humans following the bible and jesus and christian thoughts of salvation?

    Would you mind rephrasing this in contemporary English?

    within christianity use of explosives is not chozen method for christian inforcement of christianity.The christian fundamentlist might choose to shoot a abortionist

    George Tiller was shot last year. Before that the previously most recent example was from over a decade earlier. I don't think such crimes are representative of Christianity. In terms of suicide bombings of innocent bystanders, how many incidents have ocurred over the last decade?

    Methods of manipulation and mindcontrol and shunning and segregation etc, which through stress and a great sense of faith imposed hoplessness, does indeed lead a certain number of people through utter despair suicide and death each and every year

    I know that you arent engaging in speculation here and can provide statistics to back up your assertion.

    What do we achieve in competitions between finding who the best and the worst?.When maybe the answer of the problem lays in the fact societies as a whole are who all help continue promote these attitudes in one way or another to some extent!

    Personally? I hope to dispell some of the myths associated with religion by people who carelessly lump them all in together as if they were all somehow the same when nothing could be further from the truth,

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  16. JD
    Nice stat about only 7% of wars are due to religion.

    Gandopolis,
    If we just looked at the "root" of the problem, some one could outlaw marriages. They cause a lot of pain and problems and drama. So no body can get married because Lorena Bobbitt sliced her husbands junk off. Or because Brad Pitt dumped poor poor Jen.

    The problem with "society" is not religion, marriages or kids throwing rocks at each other. Those are just excuses to act bad. Some people love their spouses, some religious folk act like Mother Teresa and not all kids throw rocks at each other.

    Shalomie Homies, feeno

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  17. JD and Feeno you both wish to compare the problem of devided marriages with devided religion.

    Please provide written indoctrination and suggestive material secular people faithfully follow within marriage relationships.That contains suggestive thoughts of a faithful need for seperation and shunning and total excommunication etc.Please show me special laws that allow special freedoms of secular groups to form and legally impose manipulative tactics of inforced shunning and segregation of family members.

    Christians follow one book "in common" called the bible,people translation of this book causes their decision to devide.

    Looking forward to see a book provided by Feeno and JD, that they can say secular folk use "in common",which has text that by faith causes their need to devide.

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  18. Feeno.."Gandopolis,
    If we just looked at the "root" of the problem, some one could outlaw marriages. They cause a lot of pain and problems and drama."

    That could be compared correctly if "marriage" was compared as being a common factor that often caused these problems,specially if it came with indoctrination these people read suggesting a need of such actions.

    Reasons why christians have need for seperate churches,relates to this bible doesnt it.The bible can be said is the "root" cause.Why these folk split and devide.Without the bible,there would not be need for JW,mormon,salvation army,baptist,Anglican etc devisions in every town.Without the bible, would christians still have the same amount of reason to build churches and segregate?.

    No they wouldnt!.....Therefore the "root" of this problem is the christian faith.

    Now Feeno what "root" factor do secular folks use.

    Maybe bad role models deplayed by faithful folks dont really help much?

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  19. http://www.youtube.com/user/NonStampCollector#p/u/19/kLBDFe3mDtk

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  20. Gandolf.....

    First of all, I have a bit of experience in this. My pastor is also a counselor. Married couples of any religion or no religion often times try to work things out and continue the relationship because there is a certain commitment involved. Even if they are irreligious and they only had a civil marraige.

    Christians follow one book "in common" called the bible,people translation of this book causes their decision to devide.

    I don't disagree. And not only that, it was written not in plain English or your archaic version, but in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. When translated, sometimes different results are interpreted. A year ago I heard an Episcopal minister state that back when the King James Bible was written, they knew of perhaps 3 or 4 different translations for words in Hebrew. Now, it's up to as many as a dozen for different words. The search for the best possible definition goes on.

    JW,mormon,salvation army,baptist,Anglican etc devisions in every town

    Generally speaking, the Mormons arent considered "Christians" but their own seperate religion like Islam or Hinduism. They have a very different interpretation of the Bible which makes it so, along with their own book whic they believe compliments the Bible. If you would like to examine it further, please send me an email. The "JW's" are quite outside orthodox Christianity. The remainder of the denominatons that you mentioned along with others would be able to find a great number of points they could all agree on.

    Without the bible, would christians still have the same amount of reason to build churches and segregate?

    Without the Bible, there would be no Christianity.

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  21. Oh yeah, I love good firepower. And beer. Sounds like fun. Post pictures!

    FYI, not to be off topic or anything, but I'm the living example that you don't have to believe in Jesus to love shooting empty beer bottles with an AK-47.

    Lock and load!

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