Friday, December 11, 2009

Where is thy sting o death

Have you ever thought about what you would like your last words to be. I think it was Pancho Villa who said as he was dying "It can't end like this, tell them I said something".

A popular Atheist deathbed quote that you will see on Christian sites is this one from David Hume as he lay dying said "I am in flames". I don't know what he meant, he might have died from a venereal disease, and that could explain it? There are other interesting quotes from Atheists as they were drawing their last breath. And to their credit(I guess, some went down swinging).

When Joan Joan Crawford's house keeper began to pray for her Joan screamed "Damn it, don't you dare ask God to help me".

Or good 'ole Charlie Darwin himself when he said "I am not the least afraid to die." (Then he shit his pants and died.)OK I made up that last part.

Voltaire was a fascinating dude. I have actually read quite a bit of his stuff. I know we all assume he was an Atheist, but as I read his stuff he seems to be more against religion than God. Any ways when he laid on his death bed and was asked to forsake Satan he said "This is no time to make new enemies".

I think Charlie Chaplan was brought up as Christian, then may have "deconverted". But as Charlie laid dying a Priest said "May the Lord have mercy on his soul". Chuck's reply was "Why not, after all it belongs to Him". Even tho earlier in his life he was quoted as saying "By simple common sense I don't believe in God, in none".

Nobody knows how many "Atheists" have made death bed conversions, we only know no man ever repented of being a Christian on his deathbed.

My favorite quote as some one is about to die is that of Steven, our Church's first martyr, as he was being stoned to death for preaching God's word said "Father please forgive them, they know not what they do". Wait a minute, Jesus said that too as he was dying, cool.

Peace be with you, feeno


  1. No one has ever regretted being a Christian? Really? None of the millions of people who died in the Crusades lay on the battlefield thinking "Was this stupid, or what?" No one who died during an exorcism ritual was thinking "Why hadn't I been born Buddhist?" *Gasp* There are other options besides Christianity and atheism!

    No one converted to atheism before they died? I doubt that, but one thing's for sure: they all converted after they died and saw nothing.

  2. Im surprised Charlie Darwin didnt say, Thank F**k Thats Over

    He wasnt even about to get a rather begrudged apology, until about another 150 years .And year and years of Darwin Hate was yet to happen.

    Feeno you forgot to mention many people that killed "themselves", just to escape the nasty attitudes that sprung from faith belief in this world that ruled meddled and manipulated and hurt and abused many in their lives.They died being simply glad they were now finally dead,free and happy now that no longer would "god believers" cause them anymore grief.

    F -->"I know we all assume he was an Atheist, but as I read his stuff he seems to be more against religion than God."

    Notice i say "god believers" in what i wrote above.Why would someone have reason to be angry at a god they obviously know surely doesnt exist.People who dont believe in gods dont have any reason to feel mad at gods do they.

    God never appeared before these suicidal people suddenly to say,"Look my son be happy,yes faith sucks but still please be a good boy and dont just kill yourself...did he ..No..He as usual was nowhere to be even seen or heard

    I will probably die thinking crikey that was pretty damm random!!,Bugger!,fancy that, happening to be one of those humans to draw a weird straw and go and get born to some bunch of silly crazy religious nutcases.What a f**king complete utter lottery that life was.

    And then i will remember my good friend feeno and sigh! a sorta long drawn out kinda sigh ....and in a weak manner start shaking my head slowly from side to side trying to put on a slight smile and still see the funny idiotic madd crazy side of things!,... as i start to think man what the HELL would it have really taken to finally get through to some people like that damm plum crazy religious feenologist baptist homie dude.

    Smiling and remembering the movie "Erik the Viking", i finally fade off into comedy moment land.Thinking ,today really seems like a great day to die

  3. I've never seen anyone think that they have so much to say as Gandolph. Does he actually think that people read his entire rants, errrr, posts?

  4. His posts kind of remind me of Lord of the Rings: a few moments where I cheer, a few moments where I cringe, but mostly its a lot of wandering, and I wish there had been an intermission.

  5. Pretty clever Ginx. If I had to use the movie analogy I'd say his posts remind me of Sin City, (no pun intended) I didn't understand anything that was going on but there was lot of bloodshed, betrayel, love, hate but by far and away one of the greatest movies ever.

    Check it out, Bruce Willis, Jessica Alba, Mickey Rourke and some other Hollywood heavyweights.


  6. JD doing his best Gandolph impression

    Who's the flox a box a crox a lox who dares criticize me? Me thinks he doth protest too much :-)

  7. Yeah, there it is. The lowest common denominator- the personal insults that always follow when there is no other way of arguing. Typical.

    What about all of the people who die who are not Christian? I have seen many, many, many people die in my life. Majority of them are not Christians. Many of them have been Natives, Muslims, Jewish, Hindu, etc... What do you think, that they regret that they did not have JC in their lives? Believe me, absolutely not. And, when you are dying, there is a period where you are completely unaware. A priest from the Church of Satan could come and baptize you, you would never know otherwise. You are not connected to any religion at that point. That would make you atheist.... What do you think happens then?

  8. Hillarious read. Very witty considering the subject is eternal life or death. Keep up the good work.

  9. That is where you are all wrong, and where you cannot accept what the reality of all of this is.

    THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ETERNAL LIFE OR DEATH... Just cold hard death, food for worms, decaying in the ground.

    Sorry to be so harsh.

  10. Well, even that's eternal death in a sense, Tink. It's just that there's no you to experience it.

  11. Ohhh hell no ive gone and upset JD again.Hallelujah how wonderful be the power of the holy spirit,such love and grace abounding.

    L.o.L i dont mind freely admitting my education skills are pretty shocking.Feel free to criticise away JD.

    But hey thats what happens when somebody decides they need to be escaping a crazy religious christian cult even before they turn age 16, it means to do it you`ll need to leave home and school as well.And then find a job straight away and a place to live so you can survive and take care of yourself.

    At first my religious family even threatened they would get the cops to come and arrest me and drag me back home again, for being under age to be leaving home legally.

    That really scared the hell outa me and upset me about as much as JDs criticism of my writing skill does.I told them fine please yourself! call the cops and see where it get ya, i still wont stay there amongst you religious lunatics for long, because ive made up my mind and decided im leaving!.

    I survived and im still around,and here today to annoy JD once again and keep testing the large gaping holes in his holy spiritualism.

    The educated atheists like Ginx will just have to try and remember even without god the world is still imperfect,there is some down sides to evolution.

  12. G

    Although there is a difference in being honest and what the truth is, you are always honest. And you always bring a unique perspective to any argument and most importantly your very entertaining. And when we don't hear from you for awhile we have to send out an APB because your missed.

    Actually I think of myself as the Christian Gandolph. Only I got kicked out of my house during my younger and more deliquent days.

    And look at it like this Gandopolis, if you aint pissin' off a few fundies now and then your probably not a very good Atheist?

    Besides you still make Ginx cheer. And you know Tink has your back and you know JD at least reads some of you posts.

    Alls I'm saying is thanks bro for taking the time to always check in. That's whats up.


  13. Gandolph, if your brood truly was associated with a "cult", then you have my condolences. I would only remark that cults are just that, cults. Far outside the mainstream of Christianity and with no basis for scripturally based foundation. It is a mistake to lump all religions together just as it is to lump all people together. There's one out there that works for you, for all of you actually. The only question is are you objectively weighing the merits of different religions or shutting your heart and mind out from some of the greatest experiences one can have this side of Heaven.

  14. "Gandolph, if your brood truly was associated with a "cult", then you have my condolences."

    "Was" associated ??..JD i still have more family in the christian cult than i have family out of the cult.My father died but Mum stayed in and most of my uncles and aunts stayed in and all their kids(my cousins) have had umteen dozen children now because they dont even allow contraception.

    Thats the danger religious faith belief is about JD,its not really ever you can say your family is a "was" involved family!.Many people often leave family behind when all changing their faith belief, to a certain extent they do anyway,it naturally happens because "the faith" is always the focus!.And because somebodys supposedly always gotta be right about knowing "the" right god or the right translation and because these beliefs are often old and confusing and deluded,it naturally causes the argument splits and shunnings etc.

    Ive found even my family and many other families who managed to leave these faiths are tainted and effected and cannot seem to (quite) get back to functioning as just a simple loving family again.The judgementle divise nature remains.

    JD -->"I would only remark that cults are just that, cults. Far outside the mainstream of Christianity and with no basis for scripturally based foundation. It is a mistake to lump all religions together just as it is to lump all people together. "

    JD a cults a cult, whether its a mainsteam christian cult or not.My families cult is backed up by the beliefs of many mainstream believers in the community, and has been backed up by them all now for id say 50years +.Many christians give them the my homie! type christian cult handshake or groupy nod,even though they have different translations and beliefs they have deciphered from the very same crazy book..The fact that they have co existed right in amongst these so called "mainstream christianity" quite nicely for so very very long now,proves this "outside mainstream christianity" idea just a feeble bullshit worthless false argument!...A argument faithfully biased and focused hell bent only on proving a faith to be ok (at any cost),even if one needs to overlook certain actual honest facts to try and get there....Even if it means kids in Africa must continue to still get killed as witches in 2009, the faithful will still continue to push on for their rights to beloved faith at all cost ...Then strangley try to suggest to us atheists, that this salvation they love is supposedly free??,and Jesus supposedly already paid for it in the cross??

    No i argue im NOT simply just "lumping" anything all in here, at all JD.

    I argue faith does infact devide humanity and cause much harm.... I suggest familys shun and devide to a (certain extent) no matter what faith is involved!..It happens to a certain extent even within mainstream churches..It has to otherwise how do new cults ever evolve and form?.It happens through faithful humam thoughts of supposed rightiousness...Judgments between right and wrong etc.

    And funnily enough crazy books it seems to be are often almost always at the very center core of such devisive matters.Such remarkable ancient uneducated Wisdom that it be,so stupidly set fast in stone of the uneducated superstitious past

    I do accept your condolences JD,but anyways ive already tried to explain i dont hold any personal grudge against any other christian here in this world for this situation.... I see it more as just a product of evolution of humanity,with evolution of mans superstitious nature being the drive force thats involved in this particular matter.

    Im not here to personally hate anyone JD.Im here to talk about it and say yeah thanks for the condolences thats great,but condolences dont ever really do much about actually fixing the actual problem.

    Lets be honest faiths are devisive! they do cause problems! always have done!,even your ole mate Jesus totally agrees!.

  15. Tristan said "We are only stardust."

    Yeah Tristan thats a massive quote .. L.o.L and i personally evolved as stardust thats a little strangely randomly strange due to the factual presence of strange superstitious faith beliefs of this world.

    Feeno said "Alls I'm saying is thanks bro for taking the time to always check in. That's whats up."

    No no not at all Feeno its been my pleasure,i never ever travelled so its also a great way to make contact with folks over seas! and im honestly thankful mostly they are very kind and put up with my rambling rants....l.o.l... All the thanks goes to you Feeno! for making it possible.I happen to like you specially for being one of those christians who i can tell that deep down at the level of the heart actually honestly do mean to mean well.

    Sure i still get a little pissed off with ignorance of the fact of how faith has actually honestly been detrimental for humanity.So its also only fair enough! folks get a little pissed off with my ignorance of the actual "good use" of the educated written language!,im sure it could really be quite detrimental to the sanity of some poor folks reading it :)

    Please folks do feel free to turneth away thine eyes if really being ofendeth by the eeeeevils! of Gandolfs lack of written skills

    Thanks to everyone for their kindness on Feeno`s blog! and even though im not christian and even though a cult of christianity has actually made christmas time (for me) personally a time to yes really kinda remember the value of family! but also makes me remember how hard it can be to live life when faith beliefs have actually helped slaughtered your own family.

    I still wish to also join in the fun of the end of year celebrations with everyone else and wish everyone a lovely time!!!!! and most of all a future that only gets better and better ..all the best!


  16. I argue faith does infact devide humanity and cause much harm....

    In the last 20 years, please list the harm done by
    A.Presbyterians, as opposed to
    B.Wahabi Muslims

    If you think I'm being unfair, then feel free to "lump in together" the Free Methodists and all the harm they've done over the last 20 years along with transgressions of the Presbyterians.

  17. Typical- some religions are not as harmful as others, blah, blah, blah....

    It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, "mad cow" disease, and many others, but I think a case can be made that faith is one of the world's great evils, comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to eradicate.
    -- Richard Dawkins, The Humanist, Vol. 57, No. 1

  18. I dunno tink... I'm a pretty hard atheist, but I never heard of AIDS or smallpox feeding any poor people, just those worms you mentioned. What about meteors? Can we all agree that meteors are bad?

    I'm not religious, but if someone needs religion to be good, I'm glad they found it. Maybe atheists would have a leg to stand on in this debate if we used the money we collect (when did the dish go around, by the way?) to help people, instead of put billboards up which sell nothing (literally and metaphorically).

    Besides, religion will continue serving its role in making sure people who believe everything they read stay the hell out of science. Or as Han Solo said, "I thought these things smelled bad on the outside..."

  19. I think that what you are saying is valid, but that is not how I interpret this quote. I think that is suggesting that we tend to become "apocalyptic" when we are faced with biological threats. However, Dawkins is saying that faith is just as dangerous, if not more to the human race.

    As far as missionary work goes, well that is a whole other debate. There are many people out there who perform acts of charity for humanitarian suggestion, not to colonize poor people who need some JC in their lives.

    I agree with your Han Solo link, but they do not stay away from science. Not many of them actually study it, apply it, and work in that field. However, it gets dangerous because they feel that their faith allows them to have an opinion in female reproductive rights, stem cell research, allowing people to die with dignity, etc... They use their faith to get these "rights" and deny basic civil rights to others by arguing evolution, but they get vaccinations and antibiotics for their infections. So, while I agree, there is also another element to this discussion. They may not have their hands actually dirty in the research part of it, but they sure like to use those findings to promote their agenda.

  20. i notice that no comparisons to Wahabism and Presbyterianism have been made so I'm still assuming that not all religions are the same.

  21. JD -->"In the last 20 years, please list the harm done by
    A.Presbyterians, as opposed to
    B.Wahabi Muslims"

    JD if the argument was whether maybe some faiths are less dangerious or abusive than others are,im sure the answer would be yes it seems some most likely are.The effects of Wahabism and Presbyterianism are likely to be very different and most likely one is more dangerious than the other,but that proves what ?.That one is most likely a lot worse than the other?,thats interesting! but still does knowing this do anything to address the root of the problem? or does it just try finding somewhere to put "more blame" on! as a way to take the heat off the heart of the real problem.

    I dont see how knowing exactly what faith is more abusive than another one, does anything to prove faith itself isnt most often somewhat abusive and dangerous.

    A lot of abuse is hidden too within these supposedly less abusive faiths,for instance by being called such things as "spiritual abuse" etc.And as many folks often continue onward as faithful believers,often much of this abuse goes totally unreported, or is even purposely covered up.Spiritual abuse is really just "psychological abuse" and often amounts to little less than religious terrorism.

    JD do you think the Presbyterian ministry its self is really totally unaware of any abuse within their own ranks? and unaware of the fact that faith beliefs can actually cause its followers to sometimes become more likely to be abusive ?

  22. Ginx said -->"Maybe atheists would have a leg to stand on in this debate if we used the money we collect (when did the dish go around, by the way?) to help people, instead of put billboards up which sell nothing (literally and metaphorically)."

    I kinda agree Ginx.But still does it also come down to what folks deciding of where they spend these monies,might seem to be better use for the money in regards to best long term benefits.

    I mean sure there is many people the money could simply be used to quickly help out...But how many can be actually helped by simply being given to charity,over against maybe how much long term help can be gained by deconverting more folks worldwide from being indoctrinated to faith in places where the faith often then causes some disharmony bigotry and bias in community and can maybe even lead to more costly wars and worldwide unrest which then maybe could lead to less possibilities of us ever sorting out the poverty etc in the long run.

    Im just thinking maybe folks that run these signs think the longterm benefits might be gained more through useing the money in educating deconverting folks.

    Folks of faith of course will suggest they will be less charitable without their faith,trying to shine a bad light on what these folks posting these signs are doing.But my opinion is this is more a pessimistic indoctrinated argument.

    Sure maybe faith groups do have better charities at present,but still why should the non believing community be judged for being less organized and together and so less able to form charitable groups.

    When faith beliefs have so often been the ones who first split and divided us in the first place,turning our communities towards having the cancers of shunning and uncaring natures of separation and excommunication etc.

  23. I'd like to chime in.

    JD said-

    "I don't see how knowing exactly what faith is more abusive than another one, does anything to prove faith itself isn't most often somewhat abusive and dangerous."

    This observation is correct. The brand of faith doesn't matter so much as the core tennets and ideologies which *might compel a person to enact faith-based acts or faith-based initiatives in the name of their particular faith.

    Adherents of one faith, in other words, might use the same "kill all infidels" verses in the Koran differently. A moderate Muslim may ignore it, thus relying on their innate humanism or conscience to help them ignore those unjust verses, but a more militant Islamist may actually choose to express their faith by invoking their God-given right to execute that practice of killing all infidels.

    It's not the brand of faith that is to blame, it's the fact that the faith itself gives warrant to unjust, ignoble, disdainful, dreadful, and often harmful deeds.

    Certain people who share a kind heart and a clear conscience with nothing to gain for themselves are traditionally more peaceful than people who are bloodthirsty power mongers. Both may be Muslim by faith.

    That isn't to say, however, that denominations don't spend more time on preaching certain messages either. Let's not forget that sometimes the brand of faith will invent something original to the religion as a whole. Catholocism invented the idea of Limbo! Then the pious believed in it. Granted this didn't compel anyone to fly a plane into a building, but it was a strange belief. The idea of transubstantiation compels devout Catholics to pretend to eat the flesh and blood of an eternal half-human half divine God-child. That's divinely santioned canabalism when you strip it down to it's most basic definition, and that is a weird practice. Not at all harmful to others... unless you're a Jew accused of host desecration... and well, people have been killed for "disrespecting" such an oddly religious ritual created wholly for purposes of that brand of faith.

    Presbyterianism has its own evils in the origin of Calvinism, a part of reformed Protestantism. So I don't think the analogy of that an a Wahhabi Islam is exactly on par. Presbyterian Christianity is a sub-category of a splinter of a denomination. Wahhabism is an ideological movement and a form of extremism which goal is to purify and advance Islam by violent means. Wahhabi Muslims can declare anyone, even other Muslims, as infidels simply for not following the Wahhabi belief system.

    Although Presbyterian faith and Wahhabi faith are entirely opposite belief systems, as the adage goes, they are opposite sides of the same coin. Religious faith itself. Faith being the key word.

    Now it's important to see how specific faith based beliefs are held, why, and whether or not they can necessitate corrupt behavior. I think that more often than not we do see faith-based ideologies affecting religious practice and sometimes having negative consequences, not just for the religious, but for others as well.

    But it often takes an outsider, a person not of that faith, even an atheist, to point it out. Because all those under the umbrella of their faith may not know that their practices are harmful, because often times the faith is teaching them that a little harm may be necessary to set things right and bring about God's impending kingdom. Or else, they must follow through with faith based acts to gain God's favor, ever lasting life, and a heavenly bounty of treasure, women, and/or bliss. And all these are specifically faith-based beliefs.

  24. It is kind of liking saying that Percocet or Oxycontin addiction is better than heroin for a person because a doctor prescribed it. It is all the same, and they all have their own risks and problems, but they all cause the same sickness in people.

  25. @ Gandolf: Those are some bold goals for the advertising campaign. I'm pretty sure, if anything, the only real impact will be increased religious advertising of a theistic nature (they have more money...).

    @ tink: Ooo, I love metaphors. Let's see... Christianity is Percocet, Islam is Oxycontin, and for heroin we'll go with Scientology. I guess that leaves Hydrocodone for Judaism, extra-strength Aspirin for Buddhism, and a cold glass of water for atheism.

  26. C'mon Ginx "And a cold glass of water for Atheism". Is cold glass of water some new urban way of saying "weed"?

  27. I am urban, I do not smoke weed. I do not drink, smoke, eat junkfood. I have a personal trainer, and take no medication at all.

  28. You're talking about death bed conversions. Funny thing, Constantine the Roman emperor who made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire, remained a pagan until his death. Yet he was instrumental in deciding which Holy Books would become part of the Canon of the New Testament. Funny that a pagan would decide what constitutes Christianity and what does not. My theory, and the theory of many others, is that Christianity was made official religion of the Empire not for spiritual reasons, but for political reasons.

  29. Lordship

    I wont disagree, I think the same could be said for the Crusades. I'm not trying to dodge Christian responsibility for those but .....

    Peace, feeno

  30. I tend to dislike lumping all "religion" into one big category. I mean, to compare a Jainist monk (who sweeps the path in front of him and strains his water to avoid killing insects and microbes) to a suicide bomber seems a bit...dishonest. I agree that some forms of religious belief do much harm, but I am hesitant to extend that to religious belief altogether.

    I have heard the arguments for why we should get rid of religion entirely. I would certainly advocate the end of religion as a matter of pursuing truth, but I don't see religion itself as a risk. My rule of thumb is that, at the end of the day, if you are a good person, kind to others and a decent human being, I really could care less what you believe. If you're that kind of person, I don't see you as a threat.

    I think more work needs to be done advocating ethics, humanism (in the sense of shared human values), and skepticism. It's my opinion that it would likely be a hell of a lot easier to convince a religious person that all human beings deserve respect than that their imaginary friend doesn't exist. And if we can at least get people to embrace a moderate form of their religion that is skeptical of blindly accepting truth based on authority, then that I see as a great accomplishment.

  31. Absolutely.... If anyone is interested out there, there is a great book about Constantine and the canonization of the Bible called The Pagan Christ by Tom Harpur. Christianity has always been a political force, designed to be Anti Semitic and a type of pablum for the masses. And, it has worked.

  32. Hey Jeff i dont like lumping all folks together,but i dont really like getting into a slang out match about which faith was supposedly worse than the other one either.Its too much like kids arguing over who supposedly threw the "most stones",when maybe its simply more about it can be dangerious!! "throwing stones".And squabbles about who supposedly threw the most stone or didnt happen to throw any stones etc, is besides the point.

    And anyway cant we still keep many of the good knowledge bits of our humanity,without us still needing to also keep assigning it off to some silly special elitest type sepratist group or religion or belief ...whether that be Presbyterians, Wahabi Muslims or yes even Jainism ?

    We would simply be reclaiming the ideas as being ideas of "our humanity" bringing folks all together in ownership of the knowledge overall,and throwing out the need of the elite seperatist group and god bit that always often caused us to fight over who was supposedly better than the other etc.

    This still does not particularly lay blame on neither the Jainist or anyone elses belief in particular!!,it just recognizes the worldwide possible dangers of having the specialist type faith based groupings.