Thursday, December 3, 2009

Its all good. Just squash it fam.

On 10/30/09 on Debunking Christianity's site there was a post titled "Looking for definitions of God for a book" There was 11 responses, I think 2 were by Christians and the rest by people who claim to be Atheists. Some of the words they used to describe God were things like "no balls", jerk, petty, jealous, murderous, genocidal and oppressive of women and approving of slavery. Some talked about how God doesn't answers there prayers and is never there when they need Him.

Then yesterday over at my friends blog (T-Vick) someone used the word douchebag to describe God. I have heard many, many times from Atheists that they don't believe in God, but even if they did, they still wouldn't worship him because of the proceedings words that have been used to describe Him.

This post is not written to defend God. Or to answer claims of his absence from our lives or not answering prayers etc. (why an Atheists feels they are entitled to those things are beyond me) but in any case, this post is simply about how I feel about these Atheists. My claim is that most Atheists are not Atheists. Just people who don't like what they perceive is God's worldview, or simply are just mad at him.

Yes, I know how can we be mad at something like unicorns and leprechauns when we don't blah blah blah...? Ask yourself, are you obsessed with Leprechauns or Unicorns?

Last thing, there is nothing you can say about God that would make him not love you, and want you to be with him forever. Not that I compare to God, but I'd like to spend eternity with you too.

Peace be with you. feeno


  1. That last paragraph, I'm afraid, is a sterling example of the main reason for indictments of God's character by non-believers. The message is effectively, believe in God and worship him because He is good and He loves you. That's why people preach God's love, not to make people feel good (though that may happen) but to increase belief. The response is, not from where I'm standing. Even hypothetically.

  2. Hey feeno! thanks for passing by.
    You are correct my friend, I am back from my awesome vacations in New Zealand!

    I went to check out the post Mak did concerning me, it was quite funny to find out that it was actually about Hugo Chavez ;)

    I will post things about my trip here on my blog, so check that out later on! I had an idea of how I could display the trip so that it's related to the religious discussions I have online, that could be fun ;)

    Concerning your post, I would have used one of these two words to describe God:
    - Imaginary
    - Conceptual

  3. I should like to point out that although I laughed at the comment that God was a "douche-bag" it wasn't because the comment was being derisive... it was because I had the mental image of Wolverine from the X-Men spontaneously pop into my mind and say it. Which was such a peculiar mental image that it made me laugh.

    However, I must admit... for God to have created everything so that nothing lasts and everything dies, when he has the power to create it so all is eternal and never will fade, which is what the promise of heaven is, I just don't see why he didn't start there to begin with.

    To tell you the truth, the Bible doesn't account for this anywhere. Nowhere does it explain why God would have made the Universe in a way as to be so sporadic, uncomfortable, and lethal, only to remind us of it by introducing the element of sin into the equation.

    From this stand point, I guess there are some who will adamantly affirm that God is a douche-bag, whereas Christians will affirm he has a bigger plan for us, but the Bible doesn't speak of what's beyond "salvation point." For all we know, God (if he should exist) might actually be a douche-bag, and has set it up so that after everyone dies and goes to "heaven" (whatever that might be) he instantly kills them forever! There may not be any happily ever after.

    What I'm more interested in is how Christians can say with such confidence that God is loving. I see more instances of cruelty by God than acts of kindness. I've recently had a whole group of Christians tell me I'm am reading the verses out of context, but I reject this critique because, first of all, my main degrees were in literary criticism and theory, and history, and so I think I know how to read.

    Also, when I read really carefully the Bible stories, God is not doing anything that will change future events (causation is only assumed after the fact to account for why God would do one thing and not another). He's only doing things with will add to his self-glorification. Sacrifice your son, ah-good servant, but don't really... just kidding, it was all a test. You've proved yourself to me. You are true, you are worthy. Bow down before my greatness, obey me, or my wrath shall become apparent, so says God--multiple times throughout.

    None of this has anything to do with morality, or even ethical standards. It all has to do with subservience to God, obedience, and punishment for disobedience--not in keeping God's laws to sustain any divinely seeded morality--but that too.

    And that's why I find the idea of God dangerous. It means, if you want to appease God, because believers believe they love him and so would do anything for him, then they would want to do anything, even kill for God. Kill those fellows over their, they don't worship me properly, and more slaughter ensues.

    I think that's what some critics mean when they say something shocking like "God is a duche-bag" because, it seems to anyone who has seriously looked at many of these issues, there doesn't seem to be a way to deny the accusation unless you deny the Abrahamic God of scripture, which some liberal Theologians have done.

    Other liberal Christians will agree that God is not all that splendid, but be quick to point out that Jesus is. But I recently talked about Jesus' less than stellar teachings, so I would have to disagree with them unless they adequately answered each of my concerns about Christ's own immoral deeds, and then show how this doesn't impact faith-based thought as I think it does. Jesus was about seeing the law fulfilled, so savior or not, he only compounds the problems I see in the flawed nature of the text.

  4. If I were to pick a word to describe God, it would probably be, simply: IRRATIONAL.

    Nothing about the God of the Bible could be said to be rational in the sense of any deed or act of God's being logically sustainable. God is completely ARBITRARY, another good word to describe his character, and so his goals and agendas are unknown to us, not because he's so high and mighty and beyond us, but because he is so unpredictable. This, for me, also makes God UNTRUSTWORTHY. I can't put faith in something a CAPRICIOUS as the God of the Bible. It would be UNBELIEVABLE for me to do so.

  5. LX

    W'dup? When you say "increase belief" do you mean increase a believers faith, or do you mean to add converts?

    As always thanks for commenting. feeno


    Hugo, The Prodigal son is back!
    Look forward to your posts.
    Yeah, I know Mak did a post on Chavez, but I thought he did one on you too?

    Late, feen



    I think you are very fair with your posts and comments. I'm only telling you that because I want you to know that I wasn't offended by anything anyone wrote over at your place.

    But I do remember what my friend ZAROVE once said about Atheists "God does not exist, now let me tell you what a bastard he is".

    I will try soon to answer you and LX's question on the "is God a loving God".

    Hope all is well with the fam.

    Holla back, feen

  6. Yo, anyone seen Gandolph @ the www?

  7. I meant add converts, but it probably helps boost the faith of those who already believe as well.

  8. Feeno --> "But I do remember what my friend ZAROVE once said about Atheists "God does not exist, now let me tell you what a bastard he is."

    Feeno --> "Yes, I know how can we be mad at something like unicorns and leprechauns when we don't blah blah blah...? Ask yourself, are you obsessed with Leprechauns or Unicorns?"

    Mr Feenologist,Gandolf is still lurking out in cyber space surviving and evolving and moving along as best he can with matters of time and the situations of the human selfish gene etc.

    Gandolf clearly see`s where blissful christians like the Zaroves and feenologists of this world,all get so reverently caught up in all their wonderful scripture recitals and religious culturally inspired proud meme`s, that in the process they seem to also lose a grip on any real good reasoning or logical thought. Which allows them to be both ignorant and blissfully selfishly thoughtless! without really meaning to of course,it just happens as a by product through indoctrination of continued belief of gods no matter what the cost might involve.Meaning though they might like to think they really care,in actual fact they become so caught up in the wonder of their christianity they they dont mind simply turning a blind eye if other folks are being abused by the very same belief also.The selfish gene says this christianity seems wonderful to me and my homies,who cares what its doing to others!.And then the ostrich effect kicks in,and they push their heads back into the sand and hope like hell things will just change like magic.

    So caught up are they in their religiously inspired blissful self wonder of supposedly how great this god belief is supposed to be,it allows them to simply overlook the blatant cursed cancer that god beliefs have factually always been that have always split and divided our families created cults of bigotry and been the continuing cause of wars and bloodshed of our brothers worldwide.

    So when the faithful feenologists or zaroves of this world blindly question and wonder why folks might have some reason to quote:--> "now let me tell you what a bastard he is"

    They just cant understand it .Their brains have become faithfully immune and kind of numb to using any decent logic and reasoning to allow them to work the reason out for themselves.

    Their eyes are blinded by only ever being able to see and look at things from how supposedly good it looks from within their own (narrow religiously bigoted viewpoint).Like great ancient shoals of barbaric stunned mullets, their faithful belief leaves these folks oblivious to the wider negative effects their belief is actually having on the whole world.

    They having being become so religiously biggoted just cannot no longer even for one moment, understand their might actually be many good reasons folks cant just simply forget peoples god beliefs,like they might be able to simply forget Leprechauns or Unicorns.

    A biggoted faithful mind brought up on flavourings of biblical deceitfulness and closed mindedness,will quite happily turn a blind eye ... To be sure to try and not allow himself the chance to see there is actually a (very big difference) between the effects of gods or leprechaune/unicorns have on us humans.

    Let me put this bluntly for you,Leprechaunes and unicorns do not damage our world like idiotic god beliefs do Feeno.

    Thousands of humans worldwide are paying the price for selfish god beliefs. Thats a VERY BIG difference !

    There is very good reasons why god beliefs need to be hammered and attacked and slaughtered and slam dunked from every single angle possible from now on.

    God beliefs are harmful...Unlike unicorns and Leprechaunes, God (beliefs) DO exist and DO detrimentally effect humanity .

  9. Gandopolis

    Religion doesn't have the market cornered on things that "split and divide families".

    Families split over sibling rivalries and petty jealousy. They split over infidelity and unfaithfulness. They split over greed and family heirlooms and inheritances and finances. When someone decides to get a divorce it divides families. Sometimes over simple misunderstandings. Families are divided because we let our pride get in the way and feel we've been victimized, and wont forgive one another.

    So if you want to add religion to that list go ahead, but most religions try to teach us not to be greedy, not to be prideful, not to be jealous, not to be petty, instead they try to teach us to be forgiving, understanding and patient and kind.

    Do you propose we abolish the police force because we have some bad policemen?

    Do you propose we abolish drugs because we have drug addicts?

    Do you propose we abolish casinos because some people gamble their life savings away?

    Do you propose we abolish schools because teachers are having sex with kids?

    I can play this silly game all day. Yes, I know, there are some weird people in some weird cults and they do some weird shit all in the name of God. And they should be held accountable for their actions. Your crusade should be against them.

    Also you said "thousands of humans worldwide are paying the price for selfish god beliefs".

    Well if your allowed to take that into account, why can't we take the millions of lives that have been greatly enhanced by their faith into account?

    Well, I don't know if you will understand anything I just wrote, but I feel a little better getting that off my chest.

    I'm glad to see you back, I missed seeing your comments for about a week or so. I'm happy that you don't hold anything back in spite of the fact that you really like me.

    Late, feen

  10. No feeno i dont tend to hold much back when i see the dangerious effects of god beliefs being compared to belief of Leprechauns or Unicorns etc.

    Standing in my position having even had ones brothers blood been shed over the abusive nature of ignorant idiotic belief of gods,it tends to stink of religious folks deceitfully wanting to quietly gloss over some very important factors.

    Yes people split over family matters,but we humans still have a (need) for family.Yes we have bad policemen,but we still need policemen.No we cant abolish drugs,because we have a (need) for drugs.We (need) schools.

    As to whether we should abolish casinos well maybe we should,but still casinos do not move around indoctrinating folks into being gamblers by use of a type of fearful warfare of threats of hell for those who dont agree to gamble, either do they feeno?....See this is what pisses me off a little,quite conveniently you are glossing over the big difference...You try to deceitfully downgrade the danger of god belief comparing it to gambling,by discounting the very big difference! that no body becomes a gambler through INDOCTRINATED fear of any hell do they feeno

    See thats the problem thats happening here as a christian you are blissfully glossing over some of the important abusive nasty factors of belief in gods.You bring up stupid stuff like oh we have some bad cops blah blah ,but you forget there is no movement being given free reign in this world to willfully move around trying to convert cops into being bad cops! or go to some supposed bullshit hell.

    And by making the low blow simpleton comparences, in my mind (you willingly piss on the graves of my brothers).(And you downgrade the suffering of many many people) worldwide,like its just a factor of life we have need to keep putting up with.

    The fact is we dont (need) christianity or (need) god beliefs in this world.And thankfully humans are starting to wake up to the fact we dont need them.And i hope in future many many humans will rise up against god believers.

    You suggest -->"And they should be held accountable for their actions. Your crusade should be against them."

    Which sounds kinda cozy/rosy on the outside,and on the surface might even fool many folks like it has done now for thousands of years.

    But its from these cosy sweet little groups like your christian mates you would like society to simply leave alone,that cults like the one i was cursed with being BORN to originally evolved from.Yes feeno your church and the church/cult i was born to came from the same roots.Your sad arse argument, is like ohh some gangs are not so bad, so soceity should still like having a place for gangs in the neighbourhood.

    Your argument forgets that some of these idiots being born into gang families will highly likely later form abusive gangs that take to robbing and killing folks.Your argument forgets soceity really doesnt (need) any gangs in the first place anyway!,and it would simply be much better off without any of the "gang mentality" of people needing to confine themselves off into little separatist type divisive groups.

    You telling me my crusade should only be against the group who caused me harm,is like saying i should only pick on the poor old cancer patient?, and not worry about hassling the tobacco companys at all.Even though the tobbaco company happen to be the actually (scummy scurge) of the (actual root) of the problem,you bleat and beg that i should supposedly be ready to give them the free ticket?.This is your type of justice ? pfffttt !

    No god beliefs need to be stomped on and slowly ground into non existence,the cancer needs to be stubbed out at the very roots of the adiction.

    You are wrong feeno.It would be very (unjust) to simply blame the problems i observed simply on the particular cult i was born into.The god belief is the problem,as withou god believers the cult would never have existed.

  11. Oh on a personal level i do like you feeno.I understand you do mean well.

    However maybe i dont always like the indoctrinated faithful type attitude that seems to allow you and many other faithful folk to often seem to simply piss all over the importance of the suffering and bloodshed i and many others have experienced through the cancerious cursed nature that god belief actually is to our soceities in this world.

    Because on a personal level i happen to like you,do you consider that then means i should then simply be perpared to stand quietly by and let you downgrade and make demeaning comparences at the cost of the memories of all my friends who have suffered?

    Like if you had a mate who thought abuse of women should still be allowed,would you simply let your personal friendship overrule the need for you to tell him his idea that he though abusing women was ok,was actually wrong?.Because you liked him on a personal level,would it make you gutless in standing up for what you knew was right? just to try to keep him as a friend

  12. Actually, I was the one who wrote the douchebag comment. It was a JOKE- paraphrasing Wolverine and the way that he talks... Also, how simple and concrete his thought process is.

    However, that being said. I can assure you, I also think that Santa Claus is a douchebag, the Tooth Fairy is mental, and the Easter Bunny is a crackhead.

    You seem like a nice guy, but what is weird is that you cannot grasp that God is not real to me, and to many of us. God, Santa, Tooth Fairy are all the same. Twisted fairy tales that have had some gratification (when I was a kid, I liked Santa, then I learned he was a lie). God is the same. I am not angry, nothing. I do have anger though at the suffering that faith has caused, and how people's selfish need to seek outside answers and purpose for their life has affected every human beings quality of life on this planet.

  13. TB 13

    W'sup Girl? I'm glad you stopped by. Like I told our Dude T-Vick, I wasn't offended or upset by anything anyone said. That was just what sparked my post.

    "Santa is a douchebag"? Your stocking will be filled with coal, for sure.

    If I was to agree with you and my friend Gandasouras Rex then what? I don't like to keep score. I think that's petty. And it doesn't help those that have been hurt. But if your gonna use the "faith has caused so much suffering card" then you could at least be fair and let me know if it's OK if we can use the other cards in the deck?

    What value do you place on the efforts of those "religious" who are trying to end suffering around our globe? We have people who will go to any part of the world to build hospitals, housing, schools, they teach others how to farm, build wells, make clothes. (Providing Teachers, Doctors, Nurses, Farmers, etc.)

    Many Christian missionaries go to war torn areas over seas, or violent inner cities here in the US. Most for very little pay. They see the suffering and want to help.

    Yes they also spread the Christian message, but that's a message of hope. And many of these missionaries see very few "converts" but continue their efforts because they still seek to alleviate physical needs these people have.

    The first Sun. in December (which was today) our little church goes over our budget. we brought in about $250,000.00 last year, $28,000.00 of which went straight to missions. There's at least 50 maybe a 100 churches in this little town, see how that could add up?

    Just in the USA we have over 50 million Catholics. We have over 34 million Baptists, we have over 14 million Methodists and another 30 million Lutherans, Presby's, Church of Christs and others. They all give so that others' needs may be reached.

    James 2:14-16 (The Book) Dear brothers and sisters, what's the use of saying you have faith if you don't prove it by your actions? That kind of faith can't save anyone. Suppose you see a brother or a sister who needs food or clothing, and you say "Well, goodbye and God bless you; stay warm and eat well"-but then you don't give that person any food or clothing. What good did that do?

    Please stop back by, I've read a lot of your stuff on Mak's site, T-Vicks as well as yours.
    Peace out, Brussel Sprout. feeno

  14. Hi Feeno

    I am glad that you did not take offense. It truly was a joke about Wolverine. I admit that I am a girl who likes comic books and video games, so I merely was being a geek like that.

    Yes, I agree with you that missionary work does help those that need it. And, to be honest, I support any type of humanitarian work that seeks to give aid. However, there is also many organizations out there that give assistance without any type of religious agenda supporting their actions. In fact, professionally, I work along those lines. And, I keep my beliefs very private.

    There is also, a very dark side to missionary work. Colonial movements (one being the way that Native North Americans were treated) robbed people of their beliefs of origin, took lands away, and gave them "Christian communites". The children that were taken away from their parents, placed in orphanages, and many of them were abused by church officials. I just recently placed an article on my blog because one church has since issued an apology to this community. Also, the colonization of countries like india, Africa, etc have very dark sides to their histories. Many times, they became Christians under the threat of a sword of gun. In fact, Christianity was used as a way of kidnapping slaves from Africa, and then giving them the gospel to keep them placated. Please, I would urge you to pursue this line of research yourself.

    Not to negate Christians who do actually do real missionary work. But, the history on this movement is not good. Which comes back to what I have been able to identify as my central idea. We all come, or leave God for our own reasons. If people can keep their quiet, keep it private, power to you. But, the moment that people use it as means of social control, dictating censorship, imposing public policy, or manipulating education, we all have a problem. And, that is where I feel it becomes dangerous to everyone of us on the planet.

  15. TB 13

    I agree with a lot of what you said. And I am happy when anyone's needs are met, no matter where that help come from. And I would prosecute any one who does physical harm or any type of sexual abuse to the maximum extant of the law, no matter who perpetrates those acts.

    Also you sound like a dream girl for my nephews. They are all tatted up with Marvel and DC comic heroes. My oldest nephew has the fantastic four tattooed across his chest. He has the Punisher on his fore arms and a whole bunch of others that I really don't even know who they are. Or where they are? Not to bore you with family stuff but my sister is still pretty pissed with me, although I have no tattoos I told my nephew when he graduated from the Marines boot camp I buy him his first tat. Which I did, but all it said was USMC. I didn't know he would turn his body into a canvas. And now he has his little bro. following in his foot steps.

    Thanks for the dialogue, Peace out sour kraut, feeno

    P.S. Sounds like you gotta cool job, keep it up. Late.

  16. Awww Feeno- What a wonderful thing to say. It seems that we have met common ground.

    We both support humanitarianism and self sacrifice, we both wish evil religious people to be subject to justice, and we both disagree with imposing religious values on people.

    You give Christian a good name.

  17. "But if your gonna use the "faith has caused so much suffering card" then you could at least be fair and let me know if it's OK if we can use the other cards in the deck?"

    Translation : Can we please play games and assert some old false theory that supposedly human beings really "do" need this religion bible book bit to be able to ever manage to still carry on doing its charity etc.

    When the fact is humans have always had this altruistic type tendency around anyway! way before any religion was ever even thought of, and it originally used to be it was more centred (focused) around culture humanity family and community group etc.And lots of it was about our survival,we survived better in numbers.We even survived better by being charatible to others too,because the trade soon became a mutual strength.

    Feenologist your arugument seems to go a bit like this.

    Tobbaco comany : Can we play the card the old ohhh now dont forget!! (self important handwaving motions) tobacco sales creates a lot of revenue and generates tax etc and we give out grants to charity and we help build schools hospitals housing blah blah etc.So that means we cant carry on living without tobacco production.

    When the truth is there is really many other better ways humanity could still get together put their minds to something and pruduce the same outcomes.And avoid tobacco cancer.

    Cause thats all these religious books are feeno a "focus point" people use.Some common ground that helps folks focus together on something.

    In tribal places before the invasion of religion happened,it was most always the tribe family and community/group that was the original "focus".

    Religions have been invented as a way to move in, take over, and even desolve the original family community based focus.

    Oh yeah sure religions might give to charity.Tobbaco companys do too!.What does that prove?.

    Humans dont need to have a religion,or smoke tobacco to be able to continue to still find ways to make their livelihoods work best.

    Feenologist in my opinion it seems maybe you are still thinking too much from a religiously indoctrinated persons type angle.Its a bias angle....Your christian bias angle overlooks the fact groups of very secluded Amazon indians still happen to exist and live quite fine in their own little communities without any need of some silly christian religios belief.And yes they are charitable to each other.

    Seems your indoctrination has totally convinced you, people can never likely be charatable without having some ancient belief in some non existant god..Thats only a silly cultish type indoctrination you use as your "focus".And its is really not so very different from the same type of silly indoctrination technique that my own silly religiously indoctrinated folk use which tells (them) that evidently supposedly only people belonging to their silly church group can ever likely be very righteous....What a stupid thought that is now though huh feeno?,but yet its their bias because thats the only angle they have been indoctrinated to think/reason from .....And they all do fully faithfully totally believe that only people within their own group are the ones who are ever very righteous.

    religious folk forget to look around and see that unreligious non faithful folks actually are also getting involved in charities too,and they dont need any belief in any god to be doing it.They can do it when they "focus" on it!,like they always have done.You forget that before scummy religion ever came along and took over us and our societies and split and divided us into lots of more little specialist groups,families and communities and humanity was once "the" "original focus".

    No personally i cant agree with you that we do actually need any faith belief as a "focus" before charity will be able to continue to be present.I think thats just a indoctrinated silly non factual assertion.Just because there happened to once be very many ancient superstitious people who did charity,doesnt prove charity needed the superstition bit to happen.

  18. Personally im so glad i dumped religion and faithfulness.Personally now i would be a little embarrased with myself if i still followed that old silly almost childish type thinking.

    Because seems to me often the religious faithful type attitude is almost as bigoted as the old racialist type attitude there once was that said shit like ,Ohh black folks could never be as inteligent as white folks.

    Except the religious faithful bigoted type attitude in this case is, ohh its our religion that makes somebody more charitible.Basically saying folks who are not religious are a different colour type charity to us wonderful faithful folk!

    What so bad about it though and makes me kinda pleased i personally chose to no longer be involved in this religious faithful bigoted attitude at all is, the cancerious religions that all say this stuff to us,likely dont even stop to imagine for even one moment that humanity is what ever it has now become (only after the cancerious regions) have been the ones who have always come along moved into our countries and taken over and obliterated split and divided our original tribal soceitys.

    Its like a white man puffing his chest out! feeling all wonderful about how wonderfully perfect he supposedly is, looking down on black slaves and saying ....ohhhh!! but we white folk happen to be more into charity than you black folk are you know .

    Its the indoctrinated pride and arrogance that disallows them to see they are actually wrongfully judging certain folks, on a downfall they themselves actually helped create in the first place.

  19. G-Man

    Tobacco companies, secluded Amazon Indians, white and black folks, slaves. What the hell did I post again?

    Serenity now, serenity now, feeno