Every Wed. night I have the great privilege of brain washing and or indoctrinating young people as I fill their heads with archaic teachings of fairy tales written from a book that teaches stupid things like love, forgiveness, and that we were created special and for a purpose.
And as I was preparing my lesson this week, I couldn't help to notice the "heroes" of our faith. If I was to write a book to make Christianity look appealing I'm not sure I would have made up the characters that we have in the Bible. Truth is certainly stranger than fiction.
Moses kicked some dudes ass until he died. King David not only murdered Uriah, but Uriah was totally cool and innocent and a very noble man, who even gave up some conjugal visits with his smokin' hottie wife named Bathsheba because he felt bad his men were at war and he wasn't there to help them fight. And then the Apostle Paul, another murderer we Christians look up to. One of Jesus' best friends was Mary Magdelene (a one time prostitute) If you follow Jesus' genealogy backward your find other degenerates and even another "Pro" (Rahab). Gideon, Elijah, and even Abraham all showed cowardice at critical times in their lives. As a matter of fact I can't find one guy/gal who was perfect. Some say Joseph in the OT was about as close as we can get, but even he was a snotty little tattle tale who played hind and seek with money and other items in his brothers travels. And Mary, Jesus own Mother calls her Son Savior, perfect people don't need Saviors.
If Christians seem arrogant it's not because we think were better, it's because we think were better off.
On top of Blogger Makarios' page their is a quote that says " No one is so good that forgiveness isn't needed, no one is so evil that forgiveness isn't offered".
Shalom, feeno
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Agreed. If they were going to "make up a religion" I'm sure that they wouldnt have chosen such horribly flawed individuals to play the respective parts.
ReplyDeleteI think this is a weak argument. First off, it's culturally biased - I mean, maybe today we wouldn't make heroes like that, but perhaps back then that was all the rage. I really have no idea.
ReplyDeleteBut I recently read The Iliad, one of Homer's great epics (the other one being The Odyssey, which I plan on reading at some point), all about the Trojan War. This story was essentially the iconic Greek legend for the Greek people. It was their history, and it's probably about the closest thing to what the Bible was for the Jews/Christians. So in the book, there's Achilles, and he's like the kickass warrior who essentially just goes on a huge killing spree and mows down Trojans left and right. This guy is the superstar warrior. However, he's also a really whiny asshole that refuses to fight because the king hurt his feelings - even while his friends are out there dying.
Agamemnon, the Greek king (or the most powerful one, anyway), is also a complete dick for most of it. He had essentially stolen Achilles' wife and refused to give her back. He is prideful and arrogant - but then he manages to suck it up in the end and he realizes what he's done.
I mention all this just to say that good story-telling is more than just writing about perfect people. Who really would want to read that? Often these stories have deeper meanings about the human condition and about virtue, morality, etc. It's not just about the people and the events.
Anyway, with all that said, I wouldn't try to argue that the stories in the Bible are all made up. I think it's highly likely that some were, but many are probably based on true stories as well. It's a collection of books, after all. It's not fair to say "this one story is true, therefore it all is!"
Hi Jeff
ReplyDeleteBut you can actually read for yourself about these I mentioned and they were far from heroes. Only with believers, and they were a real minority. I Do agree a little tho, cause I'm thinkin' Moses would put a beat down on that wuss Achille.
Got a call about an hour ago, I'm on my way to go play in a doubleheader tonight. I'll give you a report later tonight, probably at your place.
Peace, feen
JD
ReplyDeleteThanks for your support. Most people in the Bible thought people like King Saul was all the rage. not ruddy old David? Good story tho about King Saul, David and Jonathon. I think it shows that we (Christians) are no better than the average folk, but it shows we need to have a repentative heart.
Enjoy your evening, feeno
Yep. The historical existance of King Saul was one if those examples of people that bet against the Bible and then lost.
ReplyDelete'Proof' David slew Goliath found as Israeli archaeologists unearth 'oldest ever Hebrew text'
I agree with Jeff.Earlier i was going to post and say much the same as Jeff has now said,but well, its not so easy when you know you will be talking about some folks pet beliefs they love.
ReplyDeleteAll action stories need some villians and princes and villians that come good.They need battles and tough times and magic and the heros that just help out in the nick of time.
No reason history cannot be mingled in.Wont be the last book written with some history or even real events or even people mingled in to help the story along.
It would be silly for them to write it with everyone perfect,often even a story needs to sound a little realistic here and there.It wasnt just appealing they needed this story to be looking,they needed it to try and also sound atleast sometimes somewhat real.
If King David existed well i wouldnt be surprised if some pretty fancy stories existed about things he was said to have done too.Would he be the first king who was donned with a history of being supposedly so very extremely powerful and amazing and wonderful etc?.
JD, I'm a little confused at your most recent post. Did you actually read that article? The title is misleading - they find a piece of pottery that says "king", "judge", and "slave", and date it to the time of David, and they find a city...and that somehow proves that David killed Goliath? I mean really...just because there's a strategically positioned city, does not mean that there was a shepherd boy who killed a giant, blah blah blah. It just means that there was a strategically positioned city.
ReplyDeleteOn top of that, how does that prove that King Saul existed? How do you make that jump?
feeno,
ReplyDeleteOh I know. But like I'm saying...if these characters were made up or at least embellished, then people would want to make them characters that others would relate to, right? You've always got to relate to the good guy, or else you don't feel emotionally connected to the story. That's how all good stories work. And making a story where the main character is absolutely 100% perfect and never makes mistakes isn't really a person that others can relate to. It makes them seem like they're not even human...
W'dup yo!
ReplyDeleteI know there are many people who profit off of religion, but those people will live for a while, then die. Where they go? Only God knows.
But those people in the early church weren't profiting from "Christianity". Actually they were unpopular for their beliefs. Do you ever wonder why the would have made up this stuff?
G
A quick response from Mak's site. I know there are some strange things some people do in the name of religion, but as far as when I deal with people on a day to day basis, those things like people not allowing blood transfusions etc. are few and far between. Let me tell you what people ask me to pray for when their child is sick. It's usually something like this. Pray that we find a good Dr. Or pray the surgery goes well, and if it's in God's will just take the sickness away. Or pray that my child won't have to endure any pain or complications, and if something goes wrong pray that the Lord will give my kid or me the strength to deal with it. I would say that is normally what happens. I am grateful that God gives us hospitals, doctors, nurses etc. If they just would legalize mary jane I'd be rollin me a big ole fat doobie right now to help with my aches in my knees after laying tile all day yesterday, then having to run around the bases all night after another dominating performance on the softball field. Just kidding.. about the dominating part, not the doobie.
Peace out, brown trout. feeno
1,
ReplyDeleteHi feeno i hear you.
But sadly i feel you still miss what i feel is a very very important point im trying to explain a little more to you.And many folks of faith have missed this very same point for many thousands of years now,helping to lead religion onward to the situation i experienced and what those in johnstown experiences too.And many many others all over the place.
What you are trying to tell me is kinda like, ohhh look Gandy!! dont bother telling me what happens in other churches in other places elsewhere all over the world.Im in a religious church of faithful folk who is nothing like those other folk you keep mentioning.
But what you dont understand is many years ago somebody just like you was saying the same thing somewhere.Yet after some offshoots happen folk like my family and folks families in johnstown and many many many other people end up paying for those folk long ago who argued their faith too supposedly never hurt no one,like you now also trying to go telling me.
You say the problems are few and far between,but personally i think maybe you hugely!! underestimate the ammounts of actual damage done "over all" in the long run.It is not just what happen in your actual church today that should be totaled up and counted as the evidence,the potential damage of everywhere matters too!!.Everywhere overall is what matter,not just what happen where you yourself happen to be.
That is unless you really wish to be just like the thoughtless uncaring pricks long ago who only cared about their stupid beliefs and hopes of salvation in some supposed afterlife,who also no doubt maybe argued the religion they then belonged to that later led to how religion treated my family.Was ok like you are now trying to tell me too,simply because they couldnt see it was hurting anyone that they could see! well atleast not at that time around them anyway.
The thing is feeno while religion is around this earth and folks somewhere are getting abused by it,then in my mind every folk on this earth who helps push religion i think has also played a part in the religious abuse happening everywhere.I suggest its a cop out ..its only a sad excuse you try to use,seperating your church from any of it.
That post on Maks it was partly started from you questioning me about who gets to choose whos logic and reasoning is used ..I asked you to answer that for me please ...Because to put things in black and white im kinda pissed that some freaky religious git long ago got to use his freaky religious reasoning and logic that lead to what my family and i ended up experiencing with religion.
2,
ReplyDeleteId still like to hear if you think its ok that supposed so called religious reasoning and logic is still used?.But if you think religious logic and reasoning is just fine,im thinking im bloody damn sure some kids born into world will simply wish they are were simply aborted before birth to save the madness and crap of the luck of the draw of being born to religion.because thats how it becomes,it was just a Russian Roulette of luck of birth who they belong to that then led to folks ending their life in Johnstown and things like that.
I too once was not able to see these things i now see and try to explain to you,when i was once also within religion myself.I then also had a attitude of caring little about how our beliefs effected many others.I didnt even spend even more than a few seconds to consider many things about the beliefs to which i had been born unless it was about how it only effect "me" and "my" other worshiping friends.
Thats what religion does though it often hardens peoples hearts and makes them just not bother considering anyone much else anywhere not close to themselves,look at what just happened over there in your country where a Muslim in your own army went and did what he did.Killing heaps of folks.
Your question on Maks site was kinda along the line of like, Gandy who the hell you to say or suggest whos logic and reasoning should maybe get used,who you try say maybe religious logic and reasoning not ok?.
Now you answer me feeno.You answer it ....I only know DAMN BLOODY WELL what the madness of religious folks laws of rights to stupidity of religious reasoning and so called logic sometimes does to many people.
And before you take my words here as anything being meant as anything "personal" against you..Just try to understand and take a short moment or two to try and think clearly and remember, this all pretty damn close to the bone for (many) people like me.It not about being personally against anyone,but more about its time to (cut to the chase and start telling it like it is!) and like it freaking feels too!.Other wise faith folks just say a quick little wee ommmmmm and quick prayer,and carry on saying meme like "oh but we still love you though".
While people like you bathe in the bliss of some dream of some supposed afterlife bliss in some dreamed up heaven somewhere ...Somebody else somewhere paying for it "for you" too!,while their life slowly rotting away with this wonderful religion and its freaky reasoning and logic.
An analogy of your "type argument" (for religion) being ok!!, is like.
drunk driving = religion
Look Gandy,me and my homies drive drunk without anyone around us getting hurt!.
So yeah,i hear what you say about some drunk homies hurting folks,but ...well Me and my homies find it great!! ....and heaps of homies in my hood like it too! ..So who gives a shit if some homies elsewhere think maybe drunk driving aint so good ...It dont prove that anything might be wrong with it to me!?..what the fk?? just cant see it!!?? ..So why you keep mentioning it ?? ..Hell man ..look my drunk driving sky homie daddy just cant wait for he`s ol followers to start back following again.Why you just dont and come back and join us too and do some more drunk driving?
See feeno ..The man "only see" the drunk driving idea "from" he`s "own angle" of how it look...To him(That as far as he want to see it)cause suits his faith .. He dont want to lose his faith in drunk driving .Drunk driving good for him...he dont want to hear about any other study being discussed of what it might does? (on any wider aspect)...the wider aspect issued just dont matter! way he sees it....And he cant even understand for one minute why others cant just simple agree with him.
There is even masses of these drunk driving homies all killing each other over in places like Palestine and Israel etc ..and so many other places elsewhere too.
But no!,he only think surely drunk driving still cant be the problem REALLY can it?.
Peace and hair grease,later mr feenologist
Gandasaures Rex
ReplyDeleteIf you are wanting to put a feather in the Atheist cap that religion has ruined many lives, I will concede and allow you to dawn that feather in their cap.
But please realize that there are many folks inside the church who feel as you do. Even myself to an extant. (how great or small would be
debatable)?
I could write for many days, get carpel tunnel, and answer all your concerns until my fingertips start bleeding. But I can sum it all up in 4 simple words. Please just meditate on this simple phrase for 2 minutes, really try to capture what I'm trying to say before you try to debunk my message. Try letting it just soak in just for a moment or two. I understand where your coming from and why the frustration, but listen to my message, think about it, then, blast away at will. You ready, here it comes:
Boo religion.
Yeah Jesus.
Ahht, wait a minute, relax, breathe in slowly, then breathe out slowly, ok, a couple more times. Ahh yes that's nice, much better, so lovely, so sweet. Now tell me what you think?
Maybe this will make more sense. Check this out.
Gandolph sees what religion has done to someone like our young friend Marcus, and is mad at religion. Feeno sees what religion has done to someone like our young friend Marcus, and is mad at religion. No difference.
I was trying to find something we could agree on before I signed off, that just came out of no where, whew. Later Gandy Cougar Mellencamp, your non-religous Christian friend, feeno
The Feenologist say.."Boo religion.
ReplyDeleteYeah Jesus.
Was that a typo? ..Im sure that/you meant to say "wheres" Jesus?....Im right?
My homie feenomie ,i actually been wondering the same thang meself ... Crikey quick let someone know to put him on the "gone missing" list downtown... Its only been a couple thousand years since someone says they seen him.
Religion and Jesus "come together" feen and they always have done it dont seperate there,pretending they dont need to always come together sadly wont ever do anything to change the honest fact that they always do.Realistickly they are simply "one and the same", the father son and holy spirit.Its the whole damned package.
People been saying "boo religion,yeah jesus" etc for long time now.Im hoping most likely you just tired and didnt really give it enough thought.Because i think its a little dishonest and underestimates the commonality of the actual problem!, to knowingly say its simply all about "our young friend Marcus",that would really be severely downplaying the damage god beliefs have actually done on this earth.(To me) it seems almost akin to saying, "ohhhh but not so many folks really died from drunk driving though,so we need to keep it a little in perspective".Downplaying how many actually have died and all sorts of crap that bee expeirenced, in the process of trying to dream to yourself that hopefully the problem really aint as bad as it seems.
You say.."If you are wanting to put a feather in the Atheist cap that religion has ruined many lives, I will concede and allow you to dawn that feather in their cap."
What goods a feather in someones cap?...That makes it kinda sound like we "just" playing some game of chess and there is something on offer to win.
There no winners here feeno,im merely here to "try" and get indoctrinated folks to look around a bit and smell the roses and hopefully open their eyes ears and mind a little and really see whats ACTUALLY been going down.
No prize at all...Do you think i set out in life to win some prize debate over religion good/bad issues?? ...Or is it more likely im speaking up for those who dont speak up,those many who suffer and even die and all sorts religious cancer that now sadly infects and effects our world.
(No prize) at all in this for (me) thats for sure feeno.Any prize in this is in the future and for "others sake",fuck all can be done about what i and dead folks at Fort Hood experienced...Thats just history now.
I know you would rather i didnt feel a need to be saying these things feeno ...And i really wish i didnt feel any need to either.
But the honest truthful fact is,there has long been an extreme need for folks to get it together and start saying it out loud and jolly clear.
And if there be any actual other life after death im going to later experience, i (personally) believe its most likely in my best interest!! to make sure i never left this life being silent about this nasty matter thats been needing sorting A.S.A.P for far to long already.
So while you sit there sometimes thinking ohh he just doing it for fun or because he only all sad and sorry for himself.
You dont be seeing where it honestly really at.
But atleast it still not me! being the one, who downplaying! and overlooking! all those who actually are being religiously harmed.
Thats where its really at for me feeno.This is!! a serrous matter,whether some others yet realize it properly or not.
Feeno-
ReplyDeleteThanks for stopping by my other site and leaving some friendly comments, I appreciate it!
However, I have a gripe with this most recent article you wrote, and I have to pull out my history degree for a moment here... because I think it's important to clarify.
Mary Magdalene was NEVER a prostitute or anything of the kind. Her family, as far as historians can tell, hailed from the port city of Magdala on the Sea of Galilee (this would link her directly to Jesus ministry for political reasons also), and were highly likely to be wealthy Jewish merchants who lived and traded across the Levant.
There's textual evidence to support this theory, as the religious scholar Jeffrey Kripal has pointed out in his research, but also, and perhaps more importantly, the Gospel name for Mary Magdalene in the original Coptic Greek is Μαρία η Μαγδαληνή which literally equates to "Mary of Magdala."
***
In actuality, it was Pope Gregory I (591 A.D.) who started the nasty (and wholly unfounded) rumor that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute.
Pope Gregory‘s imaginative characterization of Mary Magdalene, as misconstrued as it was, was certainly no more lofty a fictitious re-imagining than Dan Brown‘s propagating Christ (although it certainly was a lot crueler). In fact, we might even agree that a reasonable supposition is to infer that if it wasn‘t for Pope Gregory‘s vilifying act of ―slutting up‖ Mary Magdalene and turning her into a woman of the night in a vicious attack on her character in the first place, then Dan Brown may have never had the inclination to use her in a light less than Saintly to begin with.
As an aside, I find it ironic that so many God fearing Christians should forget this fact in light of their keenly orchestrated media attacks against Dan Brown‘s integrity, artistic and otherwise for his own imaginative and fictitious rendition of Mary Magdalene. This is what's called a double standard, but a lot of it is predicated on people's ignorance of the facts. Most Christians were not reacting to the fact that it is plausible, even possible, that Jesus was married... but they were reacting highly emotionally to the idea that Jesus was made out to have had relations with a so called "prostitute."
But why did the the Papacy continue to let this awful and defaming rumor go on for so long? Well, partially because religion, especially the Catholic Orthodoxy of classical Christianity, is entirely a patriarchy--and this abuse of the female image, even defiling a patron Saint without ever properly correcting the error, reflects the sexist, chauvinistic, and narrow mindedness of the institution.
T Vick
ReplyDeleteOK, I'm only gonna agree with you because your right. Damn History degrees.
peace bro. feeno