Thursday, October 29, 2009

Well that's nice, I'm very proud of you.

As I navigate my way around the Atheist sites I've come across more and more Ex-Pastors who have now claimed they've become Atheist and or Agnostic. They usually list all there "religious" accomplishments. I was saved as a teenager, I went to the University of Jesus where I was voted most likely to be the best christian ever. I started a Church we were great, we fed the poor, baptized many souls, yadda yadda yadda.

Now if they say they were "saved" that's good enough for me. And We'll find out one day? I am a "once saved, always saved" kinda guy.

But here's something for them to think about, for every Preacher who leaves Christianity for the positive and encouraging future of the Atheist there are people who have been in the Church for years serving, singing, witnessing, teaching etc. that realize they need a savior. My Sister and her family go to a nice church up the road from us. We've gone there a few times when my nieces and nephews were performing or they had something involving food. But the Pastor of that Church had been there Pastor for about 40 years, and his wife just accepted the Lord.(she was probably about 65 years old?) She was very involved and kept real busy doing all the things that Pastor wives do.

Atheists often accuse Christians of going to church because it's comforting, there is singing/entertainment there, a sense of community, things for the kids. I would say "I go to praise God", those other things you mentioned are cool, but if you ain't there to worship your not gonna finish.

To all who have left the church. God throws big ole parties for his "prodigal sons" please come back, we miss you. feeno


  1. Nice post Feeno. I'm a "once saved, always saved" type of guy also.

  2. Feeno says..." but if you ain't there to worship your not gonna finish.

    To all who have left the church. God throws big ole parties for his "prodigal sons" please come back, we miss you. feeno "

    The big ol bad arse, God threat.

    It`s where you so "very very sure" its all really meant to be at huh Feeno?? :)

    Well i kinda sort of even hope for your sake you really got it right.

    If not, who knows huh.

    I know one thing though im not afraid.I rather be cautious than follow some book that also shaped some folks like old jim jones from johnstown.And make folks think they somehow better than others.

    I know another thing ...You just judged and made it sound like everyone else deserve a threat.I rather not be in that group myself.

  3. W'dup G

    I can always count on you to "keep me honest".
    I'm thankful for your comments always. Maybe one day I'll say something you agree with, or maybe you'll say something I agree with?

    I know you've heard of the 'Prodigal Son" story mentioned in Luke 15:11-32. If you get the chance, please take 10 minutes and read it. preferably the NIV or NASB but any bible will do. Then critique it for me. let me know what you think. The 2 parables that lead up to this one, and this one all deal with God rejoicing and about real "parties" in heaven when someone comes to Christ. I'm sorry if that makes me seem judgemental, that's just the morale of the story?

    Thanx, feen

  4. Sweet as feeno,you know i just say it like i see it thats all, no hard feelings.Just dont feel i can run with you sometime thats all.we dont disagree on everything.

    I know you saying you read it somewhere why you end up saying what you do,oh i under stand that for sure fee.I heard it all before believe me,and you know how i have too is that the story of killing the fatted calf is it.But anyway just because you or whoever saying its something they read somewhere or hear from somewhere etc,still doesnt prove anything about it being a fact.

    And sure i will read it,no worrys.Bible dont scare me anymore fee,i feel i know man wrote it.I mean really like... the koran gonna scare you?? ...What about hindu or scientologist belief booksss? or Some real wacky Amazon Indian tribe belief their god scare you too??.Maybe a god who expected you to sacrifice a pig everyweek ???...That = passage of right of salvation ...You worried?...woooooooo you might burn in hell woooooo Quick get reading all the srcatches on their tree bark fast ..before the rapture !! wooooo

    I mean think about it Fee.Have to really be a pretty tough god to even be thought likely to ever be likely so nastily harsh.That idea and thought seems just totally preposterous to me..Its not like anybodys really that able to know that much.

    I feel if i was "the" god in this situation, where honestly no earthly being really knows anything enough for sure about god/s..Im not really seeing that even if he did exist.He would then likely even like that much being "said to be"... "the".. god who say...quote: " but if you ain't there to worship your not gonna finish."

    l.o.l....Man what a bully

    Anyway i`ll go check that story... Later Fee

  5. G

    Your right I wouldn't be scared of a god that required me to sacrifice a pig every week, well, unless I was a pig.

    When I said "if you ain't there to worship him you aint gonna finish" I meant it but, what I mean is that we need to go to church for the right reason. And if we are there for "social" reasons or "political" purposes, or because it offers some type of entertainment, chances are sooner or later that individual will drop out. Some obviously dont, but that's because they must like that sort of stuff?

    But you have made me think about "Why people go to church" maybe that will be my next post? I wanted to title my next post "What's the Rub with that"? That's what you asked me at Dan DeMura's blog, I thought was a cool phrase. I am now using it in my every day vocabulary, however I've shortened it to What's the rub?

    Have a great weekend G, thanks for reading that passage. Please give me a full report.

    Peace, feen

  6. Hey feeeeeeeeno,

    The idea of "once saved, always saved" actually was one of the nice ideas that let me relax a little bit about leaving Christianity. I figured that if at least some people were able to look at the Bible and say, for example, that there was no hell, or "once saved, always saved", or whatever else, then that at least made it a little easier for me to handle. If those people were right, great. I'd have to take my chances on the other interpretations, but at least there was some possibility of not having to spend eternity in fire and brimstone.

    Anyway, I don't have any problem saying that people go to church more than for just the sense of community. Certainly there are some that do, and some that go for the worship, etc. I tend to think that it tends to be either because of duty or because of good feelings. Some people just go because they think they're supposed to do that. Fine. Others, I think, tend to go because they feel good when they do. Whether that's because of the worship, the friends, the feeling of singing, or whatever, doesn't really matter. Why would you go to church if it made you feel like crap? But either way...I really could care less why people go to church. I'm not going to accuse them for going for the "wrong" reasons - that's more of a Christian thing, don'tcha think? ;)

  7. "Your right I wouldn't be scared of a god that required me to sacrifice a pig every week, well, unless I was a pig."

    Hey Feeno and Jeff!! so nice seeing you around again too,hope you been well.

    Fee i realize some folks do go to church for faith reasons too.Thats their choice and thats fair, but its the bit i honestly find a bit of a real worry.

    I see you said yeah you wouldnt be scared of a god that you didnt know, who had expected you to sacrifice a pig each week....But i think you still miss my point!. It seems to me and many others now, its just as damm crazy that you would think the "ex Pastors" have any reason to worry either.Why should they worry not being in church service?,anymore than you have to worry about not sacrificing a pig each week.

    I suggest its mostly about indoctrination and custom.And maybe that the history of christians faith have been formed and documented much better,than maybe that of say some amazon pig killing faith has been.Yet the amazon faith probably have just as much if not even more history!,even if it dont include any myths about any resurections etc.

    A mafia member can feel just the same way.Feel privalidged and feel like he is in a great safe position in his special group.And even feel he helps certain folk in certain villages out etc (charity) so think he is also doing a good cause.

    He might (wrongly) even somehow think maybe he wont be so likely to continue helping folks,if he happen to leave his mafia.Why he might likely think he absolutely needs a mafia or bible etc to still want to do good shit,i dont know why? ..Deluded?

    I only DO know many folks without the mafia or any faith etc etc ...Still have managed to enjoy doing plenty of good stuff!!

    Now that doesnt mean im suggesting churches are the mafia, im just showing the connections i feel there is thats all.

    Im all for the close caring family type connections church groups often have,but feel needing to be in special groups is not so good for society at large in the end.I think it breeds a type of arrogance.And tends to build on the divisions,rather than the inclusions and keeping community ALL more together.

    What reason is there need for being in some special group??,if the whole commuinity could be classed as the group instead!! ..Why not just build bigger better equiped "commuinity halls" that help everyone !,instead of churches dotted here and there full of people who then seem to start thinking they better than everyone else because they belong to some special group?..Whats the rub with that divisive idea ?

    Im not so surprised society is so split today,and communities all have become so drawn apart.Folks now will simply rob or kill folks etc, who in this split and divided community they not so often likely now to even know.

    Hell we can sure see why gang type groups split and divide our societies.Why should we think faith groups likely will help our societies overall any better?.Gangs have only followed faith groups lead after all.

    By the way did you notice that ex Church member Dan left a note on his blog making an apology for miss spelling your name.....

    Hey Jeff you said.."I'm not going to accuse them for going for the "wrong" reasons - that's more of a Christian thing, don'tcha think? ;)"

    Do you also think for instance say.. folks that hassle and acuse people of poluting and destroying the earth etc,saying possbily people probbily being atleast part the cause of things like global warming in the process.And ruining the chances of our youths future, who will still all need to be here once us oldys pass on.

    Are just being too religious too?..They being like christians?.

    Or could it be possible more about some folks seem religious,when they not really at all.They are more quite simply just very passionate about something,and maybe even got some good reasons.

    We need to define this religiousness inferred stuff .Other wise it could get a bit out of hand couldnt it....Or maybe even playing sport is a religious thing too?

  8. By the way fee i did read all of Luke ..And see it was the fatted calf thing i had guessed it might be.

    Yes its a great story fee .

    But im afraid i think we need to really with intelligence start to think much further and deeper and thoughtfully today, than rely on old stories and myths of the past.

    To be able to help ourselves and our societies that much in our future.

  9. Jeff

    "That's more of a Christian thing, dontcha think"? Yes Sir, and I hope my latest post answers that a little?


    I did leave a response over at Dan's for everyone, well everyone except you, kinda. But it hasn't been published yet?

    Late, feen

  10. "well everyone except you, kinda"

    Ohhh :( Whaaaa ... l.o.l

    L.o.l.. That kinda reminds me of the "one" chance i ever got with my family in 32years to finally get to test the old fatted calf idea of Luke.

    The calf got led out and the knives were sharpened,looked like atleast some folks smiles might even be real and kind words said might have been actually honest ...But! ...Soon as they realized i wouldnt likely ever be rejoining them in their "faith belief" ... The fatted calf quick smart got hidden back away again...l.o.l

    Thankfully i had still always been sceptic,so wasnt expecting to much.

    I once again soon became thought the total scurge of the earth.Even though it was i, who had happened to bother to travel so many miles to see them again.

    Folks still try telling me faith is really a good thing,some faithful even argue "which christians are unforgiving?".Yet i see everywhere,where it divides "so easily" over some old book.You yourself have seen it on the net too feeno,on blogs etc the Dans and Marcus is disliked folks are saying and telling us all their familys are showing some hate for their disbelief of gods etc.The agnostic still scum in the eyes of many faithful.

    There is no so called "free will",even when parables are written and regularly spoken and recited in churches and religious homes.

    Parents will still try and even ram religion down your throat if they think you really should swallow it, Jeff am i little right about that stuff do you think.They mean well! we do understand, but they dont understand we dont maybe quite see it ALL as being quite so very good and the same as they do.

    Faiths very problem is.Beliefs do almost always actually make love and kindness and grace etc, a "very conditional" thing.

    Some/many nowadays cant really see that as maybe being such a good thing.

    Even in community and general society how useful is it.And amongst those of your own flesh and blood, what kinda tribe will that make?.

    One that starves itself in the end through not being able to put certain differences aside while still working together and surviving ?

    Sounds likely .Looks even more likely too!.

    And then at church they all go on about their being evil?

    Feeno waaasup ?? ... Tell me, whats the rub man

    By the way i know you was joking, just felt the need to discuss the reality of this fatted calf parable in relation to christianity and faith in general a little more.I remembered you had kinda asked for a full report of Luke.


  11. I spent 5 years out of the church in my mid to late teens. By the grace of God I didn't go off the rails and do anything self-destructive, but I just couldn't face being around other Christians at the time. It's also His grace that brought me back to Him 16 years ago.

  12. Ross, your a good man, I kinda had some of that in my life too. But I was livin off the rails of the crazy train for awhile. But he'll take anybody back any time.

    Later Bro, feen

  13. Hi Ross and Feeno ...I havent gone off any rails myself either...And like so very many others ive never been to any church for 32years and no longer believe in gods.

    Isnt it a lil dishonst maybe? to seem to simply suggest those without gods maybe likely soon be off the rails without one.Thats (seems) simply a little bit downgrading towards non believers dont you think?,it does seem that way a little to me.And i feel its much about "old style" deceitful type propaganda,that was always often far more about lies than about much real honest truthfulness of matters.

    Im feel sure you two both really believe, your belief is also "supposed" to be built on some real "honestly" and "truth".And so might likely agree it shouldnt be about lieing for the sake of just progressing a faith belief to try to make it look better when maybe it might really not be.That would simply be a very dishonest thing to do right?..And unfair on those who are being put down!!.

    It was by the grace of some pure decent "humanity" that helped me and so many others not to fall off the rails in life,and by jongo`s i feel its long due time humanity needs to be stood up for! so well incourage more of it.

    Just keeping it somewhat realistic.I think this world needs to get far more realistic, if its ever really going to be moving forward very much.


  14. I think there are two things worth mentioning here.

    One: You presume too much to know that Atheists were or weren't saved prior to their dwindling of faith. I mean, it's not really up for debate. But I'm not saying you make this mistake... where you error, in my opinion, is by neglecting the reasons for why many Ministers, Preachers, and Pastors turn away from the fold in the first place.

    And without considering their side of the story, and getting involved with all the various reasons they have in their personal arsenal of experience, you can't automatically presume that your experience is the right one. Well, technically you can, but this shows a preconceived bias, and we can't have fairness or reach a grounds of mutual understanding if this is the case.

    As many have argued, agnosticism is the default position. However, if you're a believer, then you're going to think like a believer regardless of what anyone else says. No argument will convince you otherwise, right?

    But here's the rub. There are those who believed just as whole heartedly as you do, and yet fell out of faith for a myriad of different reasons, and deconverted to either unbelief or agnosticism, some have progressed to die-hard atheism, but my point is here is the exception which you have glossed over by not listening to what those who have had the genuine experiences of belief and nonbelief have to say.

    Don't forget, they already know your position extremely well. They've been there, done that, so to speak. Further more, there's no way to quantify whether or not their experiences were more or less genuine than your own, so it's better to consider their arguments before you comment on them. (Just out of curiosity, have you read any of their stories? I mean those like John W. Loftus, Dan Brown, Bart D. Ehrman, Edward T. Babinski, and many of the others who have embraced atheism and shed their religiosity?)

    And recent polls suggest that very few Christians attend Church to actually "worship." I did when I was a Christian, I was a Crusader for Christ, and we were all about reminding people that "man does not live by bread alone," and that "praising God" was the only way to keep ourselves progressing toward a higher good. I believed it too. But the fact of the matter is, although a few of us may have been devout worshipers, most go to church for all those other nice things.

    Speaking on honest, it's important to note that Dan Dennett is currently conducting a study of the number of those in active Ministry, as Preachers, Pastors, Priests, etc. who have lost their faith entirely but cannot bring themselves to tell anyone for the pain, fear, and hardship it may cause. Thus, there appears to be a growing number of nonbelievers who are playing the role of holy men, because it is what they trained their whole lives for, it is all they know, and many of them have families to support--and all this would come shattering down around them if they were honest and spoke out about their disbelief.

    And this just seems sad to me that a person would be so fearful of the consequences of holding a belief or not, that they couldn't be honest with others about what they believed. As an American, who prides himself on being a free-thinker, I find this a startling realization.